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枫下茶话 / 政治经济 / 记得同事谈到一个记录片,中国北方的沙漠.北京沙尘暴,农村盐碱地,雪山融雪,南亚水源危机. 无语,好象那里庞大的人口,落后的管理,造成了全球危机.但他们只看到事实的一半. 哥本哈根会议这些发达国家的表现,令人发指.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
{1247}
(#5745215@0)
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你就是举着一面大旗的旗手,替所有地球人担忧,佩服一下,你先说说 你打算如何从自我做起?是用您的 "让所有人知道" 去影响济,政治,科学,社会可持续发展,带来了严峻的挑战.么? 818 , 可是 为什么 对同事“无语”了呢? 往日的不假思索的口若悬河哪去了?
-kevinccc(stone);
2009-12-13
(#5745238@0)
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我建议你在这个话题下,闭上想无聊的818的嘴. 谢谢.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
{26}
(#5745253@0)
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为什么你能8的无聊? 而别人就非得闭嘴,请直面我的认真的提问? 这仅仅是个简单的 以己之矛攻己之盾,就恼羞成怒了? 您可真逗,一个回合就 倒了。
-kevinccc(stone);
2009-12-13
(#5745259@0)
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谢谢分享,这篇文章的观点一点都没错,能源消耗分三个方面,交通,住宅之外,就是食品,应该呼吁全球国家建立适合的饮食结构,食物本地化,也就是节约能源
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745274@0)
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从文章看, 西方的大型超市是导致食品浪费的直接根源, 为了使水果看起来漂亮, 整齐, 他们浪费了不下一半的水果产量, 太大的,太小的, 有些坑坑洼洼的,他们全都当垃圾扔掉了. 人们吃的鱼,实际只占捕捞量的20%, 大资本家的贪婪导致资源的浪费.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745388@0)
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超市是一个原因,每个家庭消费观念和生活方式都决定了这样一种浪费,政府,资本家是在推波助澜这样的一条生产链和供应链。
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745406@0)
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这些超市在惊人的浪费, 但他们却振振有词的说,水果大小一致,没有缺陷,是消费者的要求, 这话也错,也对,我们应该反思自己的消费行为. 我现在一想到以前劝孩子们不要浪费粮食: 谁知盘中餐,粒粒皆辛苦, .. 这真是个讽刺!
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745415@0)
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有一个可以做的就是多买本地食物,这样也环保,也支持本地的农民及本地经济良性发展。
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745430@0)
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+1
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745687@0)
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It is us! NOT the suprmarket! We are the one who want to buy 漂亮水果!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745518@0)
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这位找到了源头, 上面的几位在瞎扯.
-difference(怕瓦落地);
2009-12-13
(#5745525@0)
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McLean!
-mikesmith(老猫);
2009-12-13
(#5745573@0)
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西方国家环境保护得好是他们确实有保护环境的意识,全民素质相对高,对环境资源比较重视,但是他们忘了,他们享受着的良好环境是建立在牺牲了其他国家的环境资源之上的。其他国家为了经济利益,以及教育的缺失,也确实漠视了环境的保护。
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745289@0)
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这些所谓的发达国家的行为在经济危机以后, 都变得AWKWARD 和UGLY. 一方面抱着自尊自大的旗子, 蔑视发展中国家在不断努力所做的一切, 另一方面自已越来越没有能力实现自己嘴上标榜的一切
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745295@0)
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哈总理跑到韩国还在好意思滴说, 韩国人民需要加拿大的CAPITAL, 好象加拿大真比韩国有多少多余的CAPITAL一样
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745297@0)
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就是, 把环境搞糟的,大家都有份,只不过时间先后,程度不同, 现在是谁该怎么负责的,出多少银子能解决问题。如果不能量化好每个国家的责任, 义务也不好量化。 也没有一个穷国愿意老穷。现在是 互相赖账的国家口水战,想解决问题又不愿自己出钱的问题而已。
-kevinccc(stone);
2009-12-13
(#5745335@0)
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全球变暖、环境保护和社会主义:写给哥本哈根气候大会 - 2009-12-18 雨夹雪 (ZT)
-diver4years(diver);
2009-12-18
{11689}
(#5757541@0)
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Why don't we start by ourselves? Lives in a smaller house, drives smaller car and eat more at home. I know we can definitely do more.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745321@0)
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+1
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745374@0)
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房子都想越住越大;高速上跑得多是一个人的车;都回家吃饭了,餐馆倒闭了,领失业金的人更多了,消费没有了,工厂也没有存在的必要,那时大家都只能集中力量造枪造炮。说话前先看看自己的生活模式是怎样的,否则就是空话了。
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-12-13
(#5745437@0)
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Eating at home is probably more wasteful, although it saves you money.
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-13
(#5745440@0)
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why more wasteful to eat at home?
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745496@0)
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Restaurants have economy of scale so it takes less to create the same meal. And if you don't cook at home, you don't need a kitchen. Imagine the savings.
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-13
(#5745634@0)
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And I have to drive to the restaurants and the food must be placed in some kind of container that would be thrown away. You also assumed all the food can cook together to be benefit from "economy of scale".
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-14
(#5746212@0)
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Lots of people can walk to restaurants. If you eat there, no containers will be thrown away.
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-14
(#5746213@0)
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They wash the food in bulk, they buy the food in bulk, they prepare the food in bulk, often they can cook in bulk, and they wash dishes in bulk too. Definitely they have economy of scale.
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-14
(#5746216@0)
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请教???
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745589@0)
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你说的很对,从我做起。根据自己的实际生活的需要取消费,而不是钱越多,消费越要增加。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745586@0)
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if you have too much money, there are a lot Chinese who need your help in China but why buy a 50" TV when your 32" old TV still works fine! For 1000, you can buy a lot of animals for a poor Chinese living a village.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745672@0)
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这就是资本主义的腐朽性,资本论里论述过。还有,经济增长动力的问题,我也思考过,现在的西方模式最终将导致资源的严重浪费;所谓刺激消费,某种程度上是鼓励浪费,扔掉还能用的东西去买新的,我看地球是不可能支撑这样的消费太久的;还有经济增长建立在所谓合理通胀上,也是要把子孙吃光的政策!
-super_man(veryman);
2009-12-13
{58}
(#5745345@0)
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对的,我也认为节约能源和发展经济某些程度上是背离的。拉动内需,刺激消费来带动经济,实际上是浪费能源,透支资源,祸害呀。关键可能还是要多落实这个可持续发展的战略,多考虑长期的后果,这样也许就好些
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745358@0)
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Can't agree more. my daughter had a school project about garbage, one of them was the source of the garbage. We are encouraged, brainwashed to spent more. waste more. then as a cycle, we have to product more. creating more garbage.
-someyoungguy(童心未泯);
2009-12-13
(#5745375@0)
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+1
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745389@0)
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To be quite honest, how many of us purchased a new LCD / plasma TV when their old TV is still working great and function well. Do we really need a 50" TV in our living room?
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745424@0)
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agree with u
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745435@0)
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What TV do you have?
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-13
(#5745443@0)
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I have 15 years old Sharp and my 97 Camry still runs good.
-someyoungguy(童心未泯);
2009-12-13
(#5745463@0)
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I love my 98 Camry and will probably keep it as long as it runs. But 15 year-old TV? That's too far.
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-13
(#5745481@0)
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+1
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745483@0)
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You are right, man ! We are all in the process to destroy our kids, grandkids ' future. We are the enemies of them. But we all know, there is no other choice. Only innocent people are living in Africa, but we sometimes call them garbage.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745476@0)
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你说得很对,美国带领着全世界来快速毁灭我们的地球,我们的世界,我们的子孙,我们的未来。。。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745606@0)
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I don't think major Chinese cities are doing anything less damage than US cities. If US is a leader of destruction, then China is a loyal follower as well.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745800@0)
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你说得很对。中国先把经济搞上去,然后再治理环境。美国走的是这条路线,日本走的也是这条路线,中国为什么就不能走同样的路线?
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-14
(#5747886@0)
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我今年买了一个 LCD 32“, 原因,夫妻二人的视力随着年龄的增长而大幅下降,原来的19寸的电视已经看不清了,所以只好买了一个大一点的电视。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745599@0)
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You had a justified reason from my humble point of view.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745766@0)
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?????
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745596@0)
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这一切的背后是什么?资本!资本控制了一切,包括国家政策,法律,媒体,经济学家,科学家,工程师,每一个人!可悲的是,我们没有办法让人类觉醒!谁来拯救世界?我们真的需要一个上帝!
-super_man(veryman);
2009-12-13
(#5745419@0)
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Start now with yourself, your family and your house. You can control your buying and living pattern. Bring a bottle of water instead of buying a can of coke next time you go out for picnic. We can all start from small!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745506@0)
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Great idea...
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745612@0)
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我每天早起烧开水给孩子带学校
-super_man(veryman);
2009-12-13
(#5745616@0)
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+1
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745675@0)
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美国人现在所作的一切,上帝都看在眼里面。上帝第二次来到地球,第一个要消灭的就是美国人。。。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745608@0)
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你说得很对。就拿手机来说,本身就是一种移动电话,现在变成了手上电脑。那么原来买得还能使用的则只好不用了,因为买了新的了,功能更多了。 但是,我们真的需要那么多功能的手机吗?
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745592@0)
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可悲的是这个社会在鼓励浪费, 我们也许能看到地球在我们这一代人手里毁灭了
-super_man(veryman);
2009-12-13
(#5745620@0)
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And also consider the waste!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745676@0)
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经济学的同学们, 难道我们除了刺激消费,带动经济发展,带动就业外, 就没有其他出路保持地球的环境不被彻底破坏, 人类的文明能持续发展? 要好好想一想,这个问题,既得利益集团,包括所谓的民选政府,都不能指望他们能去解决.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745399@0)
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资本及资本控制的政府,只考虑他们的利益
-super_man(veryman);
2009-12-13
(#5745427@0)
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精确。美国政府就是一个资本控制的政府。。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745682@0)
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我认为首先就是教育,只有认识到这个问题的人越来越多,觉醒的人多了形成全民共识,这样才会有转机。健康的生活方式也会慢慢的得到推广。就像在加拿大毕竟有很多保护环境的自发的和非自发的机构。
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745451@0)
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We can still maintain our 经济 if we still spend the money but instead of buy big house, big car, big TV. Why can we spend money to buy enivronmental friendly products, e.g. solar power kit, hybrid car, tankless water heater.....Canada can become the environmental friendly economic leader if we all do the same thing.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
{89}
(#5745468@0)
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一场新的消费热潮由此兴起。旧的产业淘汰,新的富豪出现。前提是你必须继续消费。
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-12-13
(#5745480@0)
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We can all 消费 more smartly and environmental friendly.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745487@0)
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你住什么样的房子,开车,吃什么样的食物不是你决定的。消费是无底洞,环境保护的本质还是消费。否则明天404上就不必要有车了,大家坐公车就好了。 这是个消费的世界,直到系统最终崩溃,或者由新的科技模式出现。
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-12-13
(#5745504@0)
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If you have spare time next summer, why don't you take a trip to Europe and see how most Eurpoeans live. How they live, how they travel, how they eat and compare their parttern to North Americans.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745512@0)
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很多人说过与你一样的话, 他们中许多比你做得更好, 但是并没能影响这个世界的发展趋势, 人们美好的愿望在这个世界上越来越微不足道. 因为你被放在一个”机制”里面, 就算你做得再好, 你局部的行为也改变不了什么.
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745561@0)
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I don't expect to change the world but I still hope to do my part. Since nicetomeetyou bring out this subject, then I like to share my 2 cents worth experience. We can all do it, may be very small. But when we add up, it means something to our child
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745681@0)
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I believe our legislation must get involved. Corporations when sell their products, must also be responsible to collect them at the end of life cycle, and have scientific-approved way to recycle, or, dissolve them in an env-friendly manner.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745716@0)
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CUSTOMER is king. If everyone follow your suggestions and only buy products that are at least 70% recycle, do you think those big enterprise would ignore us. It is us who are responsible for our kids' future, not the big enterprise.When I would see people bring their shampoo bottle back to supermarket for refill?
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
{82}
(#5745727@0)
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I don't believe PEOPLE will be the final force, even though it sounds nice and legitimate. People have human weakness, they are greedy, and they are short-sight. We must re-define the so-called product life cycle,the goal is not only for profit, but environmental impacts as a whole. Government must get involved and push forward global legislation.
The main reason we have government is to collectively overcome human weakness, and do something based on log run strategy.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
{262}
(#5745748@0)
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A good government should have a clear vision and strong leadership. Do you think our Canadian government is a good government. Personally, I would suggest that all new house should installed solar panel on their roof.I am quite extreme on environmental protection because I have 2 kids and I want them to have future!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
{100}
(#5745779@0)
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I feel strongly disappointed about Canada government. They lies on Afghanistan detainee abuse crimes; They don't have vision on climate change meeting and damage Canada's reputation, they simply ride on US bus.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745791@0)
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This is why I suggest we should start on our own; rather than waiting for our government to lead us. We should send the politicans a strong and clear voice that we want to give our kids a bringt future!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745807@0)
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Very right.
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745817@0)
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never rely on one side. it is the whole system that can make sustainable development work.
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745829@0)
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+1
-nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地);
2009-12-13
(#5745843@0)
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美国的民选制度,看似合理,实质上已经变成了各个集团利益的竞争,而不是真正的民选。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745617@0)
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世界上只要有您这种志大如天, 怎么都觉得潜力多多的人存在, 这种危机就不会结束. -------因为能达到你所渴望的影响力, 最终只有一个字能解决(准确说不是能解决, 只是个前提而已), 就是在资本化经济里, 你必须首先有”钱”才有发言权.
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745420@0)
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可是为了这一个钱字, 你几乎要用你毕生的精力去努力, 能在你临死前还能记起你最初的志愿已是不容易的事儿.
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745421@0)
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而且能得到发言权(MONEY)的最一般的途径, 就是要做与你个意愿完全背道而驰的事儿.
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745426@0)
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最环保贡献最大的, 是那种最土最没有文化的农民们: 他们很少花钱, 住自己用石头砌起来的房子, 吃自己地里种出的东西, 连肥料都自己解决.----可是这样的人, 在那些所谓的环保卫士的眼里, 有一席之地么?
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745433@0)
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人类需要一个新的信仰, 共产主义没有解决这个问题, 因为它没有考虑人类自私的本质;那么我们需要什么样的信仰呢?当然不是资本主义(或者money)!
-super_man(veryman);
2009-12-13
(#5745434@0)
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世界之所以有可能走到尽头, 实在是由人的本性决定的, 跟别的没啥关系. 为什么温保解决后, 人们还要争, 还要抢? 本性使然
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745446@0)
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精确。我理解了,为什么上帝说,人,一生下来就有罪。这个于生俱来的罪就是贪婪, 这个贪婪也就最终毁灭这个地球上的世界。。。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745690@0)
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聪明人让这个世界蓬荜生辉, 但是也只有他们能做最能将这个世界送上灭亡的事儿.
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745450@0)
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就象嗑药一样, 嗑过了, 就是末日.
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745452@0)
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"资本!资本控制了一切", This is exactly happening now, and the pace is faster, I encourage everyone to watch "Wake up call" on Youtube.
-someyoungguy(童心未泯);
2009-12-13
(#5745492@0)
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看看那无由头的房价疯涨, 人们难道真以为这”人”是进步了滴? 进步到我们有史以来头一次为每晚屁股底下睡的那张床和那张床所属的HOUSE这样疯狂, 真是进步得一头雾水
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745539@0)
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俺是最喜欢聪明人的, 可是最近老虎的事情一出, 才看明白, 什么才子能人都不过是资本世界里一介砝码, 一个游戏的DICE而已, 是游戏中的工具, 是足球比赛中那个足球而已, 你以为他们真那么关心TIGER品行如何, 今天晚上跟谁上床么?
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745467@0)
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还是回去看变形金刚吧。正在放
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-12-13
(#5745484@0)
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是啊, 想这些没用滴, 不如关心一下自己的小世界
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-13
(#5745545@0)
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说得好。。
-111111(快乐老家);
2009-12-13
(#5745693@0)
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LZ一看到这些数字就激动的不行,我先请问MACLEANS是个什么样的机构,我大致看了下它的主页,没看到“about us". 我先怀疑这个杂志的credit. 这杂志代表谁在说话? 里面有利益关系吗?
-volley(悠悠);
2009-12-13
(#5745571@0)
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就算不管是哪个杂志,无疑说的都是事实
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745579@0)
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你是上帝啊,怎么这么容易就知道“事实”??
-volley(悠悠);
2009-12-13
(#5745583@0)
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哈哈,不敢,只是看这个文章的质的分析,量不知道
-wonder05(sunny);
2009-12-13
(#5745595@0)
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I use my common sense!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745741@0)
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Don't point finger to our governments (US, Canada, China or whatevr), greedy enterprises! Do our jobs first! We can all do it! X'mas is coming! Let start NOT to wrap the gift this X'mas. How many tree we can save for 1 X'mas?
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
(#5745736@0)
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Paper is recyclable, Sir. And the wrappings add so much to the holiday spirit, joy and excitement. Besides, boycotting paper will surely kill a lot of jobs. Why don't we all move back to caves?
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-13
(#5745749@0)
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It requires enery to recycle paper. I didn't suggest to boycot paper but just suggest to use it more wisely. I have to say I am quite extreme in term of environmental protection. And I never said we should move back to cave.A smaller house is fine, we don't have enough cave for all of us. Just curious, how big a house people live for a family of 4 in major Chinese cities?
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-13
{152}
(#5745788@0)
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It requires energy to live and enjoy life.
-wincity(toad);
2009-12-13
(#5745806@0)
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Yes, it does!
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-14
(#5746199@0)
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Pandora Box: International Cooperation and the Government interests overwhelming the mankind.The big topic is what direction the world is moving forward to. What the life we have and what should be. Is it possible that you are one unit of the supply chain management systems, a robotics in IT labor assembly line, an empty organic bag for consuming protein and vegetables in a complex process? Think about those question while you are calculating your mortgage rate, your X-mas gift paper, your vacation destination.
What is distinguish you from those material things? Think about it.
-skitennis(tennisfan);
2009-12-13
{498}
(#5745960@0)
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I know parents who allow their kids to have a new cellular phone every year because they have a good corporate plan. You and I can make a difference, not just on ourselves but our children as well.
-hkchan(0);
2009-12-14
(#5746198@0)
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It is easier to say, just got back from a small and old house of a local friend, and on the way back home,everyone on my car except for me was laughing at how small and how old his house and furnitures are----I did not only because I recalled this talk here from last night
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-12-14
{167}
(#5747218@0)
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重复大量制造产品其实就是大量制造垃圾,君不见现在满世界的到处是垃圾,垃圾工罢工几周就忍受不了。其实我们生活中真正需要的东西并不多,只是各种各样垃圾的“诱惑”太多。
-dvd(weiwei);
2009-12-18
(#5758034@0)