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枫下拾英 / 心灵感悟 / 【暑期心灵之旅】 “因这世界的智慧,在神看是愚拙。如经上记着说,主叫有智慧的中了自己的诡计。”
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-13
{349}
(#5414633@0)
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是圣经怎么了?还是我怎么了?圣经里的话怎就常让我读着别扭?——什么是:这世界的智慧,在神看是愚拙???什么是如经上记着说,主叫有智慧的中了自己的诡计????
-starrain(starrain);
2009-7-13
(#5414838@0)
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就是,人的智慧在神看来是愚拙的,人自以为是,到头来被自己聪明所误。这种例子在现实中很多。
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-13
(#5414982@0)
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yes, the translation is hard on us who used to contemporary chinese. understanding the english version would be easier.
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2009-7-15
(#5419356@0)
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妙哉,神的大能!
-firetrain(火车头);
2009-7-13
(#5414842@0)
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麻烦给与解释解释?什么是:这世界的智慧,在神看是愚拙???什么是如经上记着说,主叫有智慧的中了自己的诡计????
-starrain(starrain);
2009-7-13
(#5414867@0)
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糊涂的聪明人(ZT)
-firetrain(火车头);
2009-7-13
{4304}
(#5414957@0)
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谢谢!:)))
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-13
(#5414970@0)
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拜读了。记得很久听过一句话:人一思考,上帝就发笑。
-starrain(starrain);
2009-7-13
(#5415200@0)
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人类一思考上帝就发笑-米兰昆德拉...嗯,值得回味
-firetrain(火车头);
2009-7-14
(#5417231@0)
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「不要自以为有智慧,要敬畏耶和华,远离恶事。」(箴3:7) (ZT)
-firetrain(火车头);
2009-7-13
{1090}
(#5414976@0)
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"凡自以为心中有智慧的人,他都不顾念。"约 伯 记 Job
37:23 论 到 全 能 者 , 我 们 不 能 测 度 。 他 大 有 能 力 , 有 公 平 和 大 义 , 必 不 苦 待 人 。
37:24 所 以 , 人 敬 畏 他 。 凡 自 以 为 心 中 有 智 慧 的 人 , 他 都 不 顾 念 。
-firetrain(火车头);
2009-7-13
{208}
(#5414999@0)
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Oopsy, embed不允许,门德尔松的<以利亚>选段:He, Watching over Israel. 音乐连接在此。。。
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-13
(#5414949@0)
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If God exists, I'd like him to show up and talk to me in person, rather than having someone else knock on my door and preach me. God, show youself at this very moment and I will believe you.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-13
(#5415618@0)
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God, Jesus , showed already 2000 yrs ago, and be crusified!
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
(#5416309@0)
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Really? Did you see it?
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5416333@0)
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Did u see pyramid before u believe there is a pyramid?
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
(#5416382@0)
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The difference between the pyramid and Jesus is, if I ever want to see the pyramid, I can fly to Egypt next morning and it will be standing there. Even if the pyramid did not exist, I could still fly to Egypt and see for myself that it does not exist.It is something whose existence I can prove with my own senses.
In the case of Jesus, no living person has ever seen him with his/her own eyes, nor does anyone know of any person that has seen him with his/her own eyes. It is based purely on faith.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
{252}
(#5416446@0)
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It is the point you just believe your own senses, how come God should follow your senses?
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
(#5416905@0)
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Let's suppose there was God. Now, he created this sensible world, and everything follows the laws he set. Wouldn't it be against his own principles if the very world he created cannot be detected, observed, explained, and understoodby the very senses he instilled in humans?
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
{42}
(#5417372@0)
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If we can't believe our senses, what should we believe? Your preaching? What makes your preaching word more believable and trustworthy than my own senses?
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5417421@0)
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Even we can not always believe our senses, like loving somebody, people may think he is loving somebody, but maybe that is not real love, he just want to get that person.
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
(#5418849@0)
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After sin came into the world , not everything follows the laws He set,and humans' senses are limited, God is infinite, how can we observe God by our limited senses?
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
{96}
(#5418829@0)
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Good point. But if God was omnipotent, why wouldn't he manifest himself in ways that our limited senses would detect and perceive? Wouldn't he want all of us to feel his existence by showing himself visually or sonically?Because seeing and hearing are the only direct way to convince people.
Otherwise, I can only conclude that no such God exists in our sensible, human realm.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-15
{156}
(#5419348@0)
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The problem with Christian believers is that their belief is based on a false premise that cannot be proven in the first place. As such, the whole Christian myth is unconvincing.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5417395@0)
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How u know that is false, prove it by your senses,pls.
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
(#5418852@0)
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To quote Richard Dawkins, Christians and Muslims are a bunch of deluded folks, nothing more.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5417407@0)
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u agree with Richard Dawkins , that does not mean u and him are right
-redrivervalley(空谷山人);
2009-7-14
(#5418862@0)
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you will see him absolutely and definitively,
-statstar(tiger);
2009-7-14
(#5416384@0)
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If you see God after you die, please come back and let me know. Thanks in advance.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5418326@0)
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yes, i will tell you over there, you wanna go after me? haha
-statstar(tiger);
2009-7-15
(#5419143@0)
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Before I go anywhere, I'd like to know exactly where I am going.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-15
(#5419350@0)
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right, hope so, i am afraid your 'exactly' means nothing.
-statstar(tiger);
2009-7-15
(#5419616@0)
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来福,根据我的感觉,你追求真理的个性是强烈的,神一定会怜悯你。巴赫、勃拉姆斯、门德尔松、马勒等列位大家的作品很美、很震撼,如果我们只停留在艺术层面上,而不去寻找艺术背后的神,那是很可惜的。
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-14
{182}
(#5417203@0)
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Thanks, Maer. I will get back to you later.
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5417412@0)
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巴赫是虔诚的新教徒。但是他的信仰对他的音乐创作有何影响,这个问题从来没有过定论,也没有人敢下什么定论。难道他不信基督,就会影响到他的创作水平和产量了吗?仁兄简单地将他的信仰和他的音乐以因果关系联系起来,我认为不妥。巴赫的才能是客观的事实,我们不要将它与信仰联系起来。 信仰即便play a role in it,也只是作为灵感,起辅助作用。 与巴赫同时代,信奉上帝的作曲家很多,为什么那些人的音乐没有达到巴赫的层次? 你能说因为他们没有巴赫虔诚?
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
{212}
(#5418343@0)
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我不是说信仰对于艺术审美的影响,而是美背后的精神力量。这种精神力量比艺术之美本身要更高一个层次。神是宇宙万物的创造者,美的法则如同客官世界的规律一样,皆本于此。
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-14
(#5418814@0)
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而我所说的就是你这种精神力量对艺术创作有什么意义? 精神力量是听者自己derive出来的。 贝多芬弹琴,周围的人感动得哭了,因为感到了精神力量。 可贝多芬却哈哈大笑,说你们都是傻子。 这就是对你所谓的“精神力量”的嘲讽,因为它是extra-musical的东西。
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-15
(#5419335@0)
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所以很多人只能被贝多芬这样的‘疯子’感动啊。
-statstar(tiger);
2009-7-15
(#5419640@0)
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另外,这里还涉及到美学范畴。艺术的美是来自艺术本身,还是来自它所带出的一系列别的东西? 我认为,艺术品都有它本身的inherent value或inherent beauty,不需要连带其他的东西,单单它本身就可以是美的。比如我看一幅画,我会觉得很美,因为作者的技巧精湛绝伦,刻画得栩栩如生,在视觉上感染我,令我感到美。 我并不用联想到这是作者为了讴歌赞颂神所画的,所以才觉得美。 因为“讴歌赞颂神”这件事,是extra的,跟画作本身没有关系。
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
{215}
(#5418358@0)
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在音乐上,“艺术的美是来自艺术本身” 的论断就是八卦术,平常我们所说的“纯音乐层次”指的就是这个。但是,这个所谓艺术鉴赏的最高层次,其实是最没有价值的,跟浪漫主义思想完全对立。
-maer(马儿陟彼南山言采其薇);
2009-7-14
(#5418836@0)
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先说说浪漫主义思想指的是什么。
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-15
(#5419340@0)
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你可以要求神向你显示祂自己,不过你不要期望祂按照你所想象的方式来向你显现。你要这样求:神啊,求你用我能够接受的方式向我显现。神必定会答应你。因为神应许过,凡祈求的,就得着。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-7-14
(#5417612@0)
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I tried. No luck. 可能上帝没有诚意吧。
-lifesucks(蛋定丛茸);
2009-7-14
(#5418332@0)
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只有可能你没有诚意
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-7-14
(#5418405@0)