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枫下拾英 / 心灵感悟 / 今日此时,亚伯拉罕要杀他的儿子以撒,敬献给神。全世界的穆斯林都在纪念这个"节日"。What a religion! [创世纪22.9 他们到了神所指示的地方,亚伯拉罕在那里筑坛,把柴摆好,捆绑他的儿子以撒,放在坛的柴上。亚伯拉罕就伸手拿刀,要杀他的儿子。]
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4130939@0)
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那么到底是伊希梅尔还是以撒呢?
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131041@0)
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恩,伊斯兰记载要杀的是以实玛利,这个比较现实,反正是小老婆生的,杀了就杀了八,以撒是老夫人正门正出,怎么可以随便杀?看来圣经记载有误。
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131070@0)
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那你为什么引用那"有误"的圣经? 你干吗不找本古兰经来?
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131155@0)
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记述一个事情,打岔有意思吗?
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131190@0)
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杀哪个儿子区别可不小, 人们争论了一千年. 含混不清的引用常能导致错误的结论. 你愿意的话, 就请简单纠正一下, 明确指出引用哪本经就可以了.
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131235@0)
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感悟我的心灵的是那个“杀”字,因为它带着血腥味。。。关于啥谁,以撒是以色列和“以东”人的祖先,以实马利是阿拉伯人的祖先,以色列和阿拉伯,都争着把自己的祖先绑上祭台,只有祖先被(险些)杀过,才是正统。不得不在感慨一次 What the religions!
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131264@0)
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那就看看中国24孝里郭巨埋儿的故事
-cerboros_redux(Cerboros Reborn);
2007-12-19
{871}
(#4131282@0)
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那不是最后也没杀吗? 你急啥?
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131299@0)
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The story is about faith but not filicide. you have to put the affair into its context. Abraham was God's favorite and His personal friend. Abraham had almost absolute faith in God. Imagine,if you had personal connection with God andyou knew He is absolute loving and rightoues and almighty, you wouldn't think He would ask you to do anything wrong. You would understand all He asks must be right and good even you could not understand.
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2007-12-19
{204}
(#4131104@0)
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I will NOT kill my son for any reason 这是道德底线
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131121@0)
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如果你儿子杀人了?
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131168@0)
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以撒or以实马利杀过人?或者犯过什么大罪?对他们这是无妄之灾。况且我儿子即使杀过人,我也没权利和他一样杀人,给你讲个世俗的新闻:联合国刚刚通过全球暂缓死刑议案,任何人没有权利剥夺另一个人的生命,你地明白?
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131184@0)
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这个比喻不合适, 你儿子不会杀人的, 放心好了.
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131240@0)
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这就是为什么你不是 God’s favorite.
-rollor(Rollor);
2007-12-19
(#4131171@0)
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Yes, I think Abraham was very lucky because he personally spoke with God. I always think if I get a chance to see/listen/speak with God once I would also be a great believer. Or maybe just a visit by an angel will do.God please forgive my unfaithfulness, ........Jesus said, "Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed"(John.20:29).
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2007-12-19
{125}
(#4131456@0)
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对于不信者,看到了也不信。
-rollor(Rollor);
2007-12-20
(#4133078@0)
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如果敌人严刑拷打你, 美女金钱利诱你, 你都没有招. 他们找出你的儿子来威胁你, 你是招还是不招?
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131222@0)
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你打这个比方里边“敌人”是什么比喻?我看圣经段落只有三个“人”物:亚伯拉罕、以撒(我猜[对不起找不到]古兰经里是伊希梅尔)和耶和华神。难道。。。你把我们全能的上帝比作敌人,你你你!
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131237@0)
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这不是在说你儿子吗. 算了, 看来这个比喻也不适合你.
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131253@0)
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改了就好。小心神的烈怒
-duoshaosuanshao(不多也);
2007-12-19
(#4131266@0)
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我是在说你儿子的事. 是你要拿去比较的.
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131277@0)
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比方说你儿子要去从事一个正义地事业, 比方说解放台湾吧(假设你支持), 有点危险, 你让他去吗?
-firetrain(火车头);
2007-12-19
(#4131270@0)
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信仰与道德不是同一个层次。道德是人界的标准,不是衡量与神关系的标准。儿女是你的最亲,但在对上帝的信面前,又什么都不是了。他杀子,让上帝看到了自己在他心中的分量。
-wloo(凉咖啡);
2007-12-19
(#4131296@0)
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He was not "killing" in the sense of your word of "kill".
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2007-12-19
(#4131420@0)
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religions just make me thrown out no matter what, full of lies from the riches and get dumped to the poors...
-backyard0000(tidyyard);
2007-12-19
(#4131668@0)
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yeah, totally understand your feeling. just sometimes feelings are too far away from truth. sometimes they are close though. whatever.
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2007-12-19
(#4131680@0)
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约伯怎么样?对上帝够忠心吧?他也象你说的,相信上帝做的一切都是对的。可上帝对他做了什么?一个顺口赌博的牺牲品,是吧?不仅失去儿女、财产,还自己弄的...你老如何解释这个
-wloo(凉咖啡);
2007-12-19
(#4131284@0)
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你居然看过约伯记?不简单呀。估计没看完吧?建议看看完。据说那是人类史上最早的一个剧本。
-bdbs(不多不少);
2007-12-19
(#4131306@0)
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看来你老看完故事了,还记得后来上帝问约伯多少个问题吗?千年来一直争论为什么上帝没有直接回答约伯的问题,而是反问约伯n个问题。其实上帝的答案就在他反问约伯问题的数目里。有兴趣你老自己去研究一下吧
-wloo(凉咖啡);
2007-12-22
(#4138984@0)
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Job was not at all a牺牲品in the sense of your word牺牲品. "失去儿女、财产"just temporarily thing and was not comparable to the happiness of living in His pure kingdom. Having the idea of eternal life in mind changes the way you look at things...
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2007-12-19
(#4131441@0)
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你老说的对,牺牲品这个词的确用的不当。但对这个故事我一直不解。人是有感情的动物。自己的子女忽然都无疾而终,这可不是“just temporarily thing”。人死不能复活,尽管后来约伯有了更多的儿女,但对人的感觉不一样。另外上帝的对他的奖赏是财富....?上帝也认为对人来讲,荣华富贵于财富是好东西吗
-wloo(凉咖啡);
2007-12-22
{44}
(#4139012@0)
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比起共产党的“爹亲娘亲不如党亲还是差了一些”。 前苏联的一个“少年英雄”就
是一个出卖父亲的少年, 被同村的人打死的。圣经也是人写的,中国的“24孝”故事更吓人, 有什么把儿子送到冰窟窿的事情。
-cerboros_redux(Cerboros Reborn);
2007-12-19
{73}
(#4131254@0)
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just like the girl killed by her father.
-wince(MerryGoRound);
2007-12-19
(#4131259@0)
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religions just make me thrown out no matter what, full of lies from the riches and get dumped to the poors...
-backyard0000(tidyyard);
2007-12-19
(#4131669@0)
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听神的话,神爱世人。神让你杀人,让你抢掠,让你做一切有违人的道德的事都有他的道理,不是人能理解的。只是,神的旨意从哪里来?从你的心灵祈祷,从罗马教廷,从万灵的每人有不同解读的圣经?人以神的名义作过的事,恐怕是最恶毒最恐怖的。if I had a personal connection with God and had absolutely faith in God... And truly believe God told me to kill your son because he loves you and it was the best for you and your son.. Will you understand me? Will you allow me?
Faith is very personal and no one can reason or argue with it... That's why it took so many years and so many people's blood to estabish a society where Church can't interfere with the order of the law, with the freedom of speech, with the education of our kids [in a sense].
-mikesmith(老猫);
2007-12-20
{511}
(#4133158@0)