Age of Turbulence第5集，两个在Morgan Stanley的女孩子。 -zuluking(Pursuit of Happyness) @安省华人论坛:安省枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Ontario

Age of Turbulence第5集，两个在Morgan Stanley的女孩子。

zuluking(Pursuit of Happyness)

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛周末朋友请吃饭，介绍他来多伦多访问的朋友，一个在Morgan Stanley 香港IBD (Investment Banking Division)工作的女孩子。人很聪明，背景很强。北大计算机系毕业的，斯坦福management science硕士，AT Kearney consulting 工作了几年，2006年回香港Morgan Stanley 工作。主要是帮中国大陆企业在香港和美国上市。聊了一下，了解了一下香港就业市场的情况。也聊到自己当年也被AT Kearney面试过。虽然没有过关，但也不后悔。当年AT Kearney面临艰难的选择，最终走了MBO, 以解决自己的发展问题。这是后话，将来有空再聊。

聊天的过程中谈到自己另外一个朋友，两个女孩子互相认识：女孩子B,哥们的ex, 香港女孩子，大学校友，读的是electrical engineer, 毕业后在IBM多伦多工作了2年，后来觉得lack of challenge, 跳槽到deloitte consulting in NYC，　做了５年，厌烦了IT. ０５年到MIT读ｍｂａ，　０６年暑假ｍｏｒｇａｎ　ｓｔａｎｌｅｙ　ｈｏｎｇｋｏｎｇ　ｉｎｖｅｓｔｍｅｎｔ　ｂａｎｋｉｎｇ　ｉｎｔｅｒｎ．　后厌倦香港的工作环境。据说香港ｉ　ｂａｎｋｉｎｇ　更不是人呆的地方。０６年年底经过一番苦斗，拿到ｍｏｒｇａｎ　ｓｔａｎｌｙ　ＮＹＣ的ｏｆｆｅｒ．　

周末上网，看到女孩子B居然在MSN上，好是奇怪，原来，mm现在出差到北京，在做crossborder financing. 聊了几句，对我吐苦水，觉得对IBD做了一年已经失去兴趣。除了一天13，14个小时的工作量，基本没有自己的时间。现在正是谈婚论嫁的时候，每天工作的半死，哪里有时间，再加上不停的要出差，更本没有时间考虑家庭。

两个女孩子都很好强，但是并不给人一种咄咄逼人的感觉，闲聊的时候，也从来不主动提到自己在做的工作，毕竟，一天14个小时，再谈也没有什么意思了。到是两个人都在想如何离开IBD,开始办自己的公司。。。

谈到香港就业情况，北美的credit crunch对中国企业到美国上市有一定的影响。不过，中国企业到香港上市到还很火爆。现在香港ibd最终要的两个语言是英语和国语。外加一句，两个女孩子都没有CFA.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

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Last Updated: 2008-3-31

啥是CFA? 只听说过CGA. -jiqimao(阿蒙); 2008-3-31 (#4367119@0)

啥叫CGA？ -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-3-31 (#4367394@0)
Chartered Financial Analyst , 刚google 到的。不知道CFA 的门槛高不高，感觉比做CGA 有意思。 -jiqimao(阿蒙); 2008-4-1 (#4369273@0)

是两个不同的领域，一个金融一个会计 -bopoboy(bopoboy); 2008-4-2 (#4370439@0)

哦，有点明白了，那你说这金融和会计又有啥不同呢？ -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-4 (#4374920@0)

其实我不懂，我只会Google。我把Google的结果告你？-> -bopoboy(bopoboy); 2008-4-4 {97} (#4375750@0)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting

别忘了说谢谢！

谢谢！真会 Outsourcing. -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-4 (#4376359@0)

Chartered Financial Analyst. -dumochi(渡漠治); 2008-4-2 (#4370524@0)

好看.我同学在LEHMAN BROTHER总部做IT部门的VP,美女强人,刚做了一年就听说要离婚(她是大学刚毕业就结了婚,两个孩子了都).凤凰的美女主持曾子墨也是MORGAN STANLEY出来的,NY和香港都做过,事业高峰期退出,休息了整整九个月.现在的她还是单身. -labelle(㊣完美的海盗); 2008-4-1 {38} (#4367617@0)

看来想要家庭婚姻的女性,混IB还是很难的.

诶，你同学性格怎么样？还温柔不？我请你们吃饭好吗？离婚了不怕，孩子跟谁呀？ -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-4 {91} (#4374919@0)
曾子墨其实长得一般，最要命是三围不怎么样。其实鲁豫我挺喜欢的，幸好没升 Associate,不然谁要？

小声问句, 您这俩女孩在MS都是什么职位呀? 一般职员? -marcowang(Milan Milan); 2008-4-1 (#4368320@0)

工作到没有私人的时间这生活还有啥品质？ -shaoxing(绍兴师爷); 2008-4-1 (#4368335@0)

适合单身女青年, 呵呵. -dumochi(渡漠治); 2008-4-2 (#4370528@0)

才学了个词: eye candy --- 说的就是trading floor 的单身美女 -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-3 (#4374638@0)

记得当年我老公告诉我：他早晨去上班时候，看见有人在刷牙洗脸的，加班一夜未回家。也有个阿拉伯的王子，做VP，几乎不上班，但是就是能拉到资金。偶尔上班带着2，3岁的小女儿，于是办公室里的女孩子们蜂拥而至，一口一个公主的叫着。。。。 -nini1998(满月); 2008-4-2 (#4370535@0)

外行问一句, 为什么工作时间这么长, 就不能多几个人大家少干几个小时? -dusk(~小桥流水~); 2008-4-1 (#4368361@0)

This is indeed a very good question! -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-1 (#4368611@0)
Maximization of profit: use least labor to do most work -hieveryone(外婆的澎湖湾); 2008-4-1 (#4369284@0)

Not really. Likely it's sort of Path Dependence. -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-1 (#4369373@0)

what's path dependence? -kittybaby(kittybaby); 2008-4-1 (#4369847@0)

香港和日本一样，工作压力很大。每个人都拼命工作，在那个氛围里，自然不自然都那样了。 -nini1998(满月); 2008-4-2 (#4370539@0)

嗯, LZ还有原创, 支持! -ruex(xeur); 2008-4-1 {256} (#4369548@0)

M&A and IB have lots of tedious but always urgent stuff, usually done by entry-level associates. The money is not so good either. So unless someone can see himself / herself growing into a trader or portfolio manager, it is no difference from office labor.

我老公HKU毕业以后，就在中环的MORGAN STANLEY工作。那是96-98年。呵呵。。。当年他25岁。 -nini1998(满月); 2008-4-2 (#4370465@0)

好像全世界都通行8小时工作日，干嘛要工作14小时，文中除了文凭比较牛X以外，没啥东西，不如嫁人生孩子算了。 -zhousx18(心想事成); 2008-4-2 (#4370782@0)

这个规则在东亚行不通。 -robos(不错); 2008-4-2 (#4370864@0)

组里的美国女孩今天辞职了,不愿再面对 dirty job + mean coworkers. 某VP的结论是, 看看, 中部来的吧, New Yorker哪有这样的, 既没有package又没有下家! -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-3 (#4374150@0)

:) which jungle r u with? -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-3 (#4374433@0)

应该和你不远吧 ... -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-3 {357} (#4374520@0)
我因此心里很不开心 ... 和她私下关系不错, 4个月前她就有此意, 我还劝了她半天, 在她过生日时请她吃饭; 裁员时她吓得要哭了, 也是和我聊了好久, 现在过去了, 她还是要走了 --- 我觉得挺失败挺伤感的 ... 她把书都要给我, 说彻底退出这行了...

是啊, 她反正年轻, 没有任何负担, 输得起, 人家曾子墨不也在家待了那么久嘛

难说是对是错吧, 不过这气魄确实让街上的混混们大跌眼镜.

挺远的，此 Street 非彼 Street 也。Recall the PIMCO interviewer asked: how thick skin do you have? Totally pissed off! -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-4 {153} (#4374916@0)
I love that Harvard guy: when being asked the question "how could I separate you and moron?", the dude answered "use this table between you and me!"

精辟啊 --- 通常傻瓜的脸皮天生比自以为聪明的人厚, 所以可以更适合某些职位. 当然这些傻瓜自己不一定知道, 面试时也就不会聪明地让更大的傻瓜下不来台 ;-) -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-4 (#4375023@0)

这段话有点绕，不大好懂。怪我笨！ -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-4 (#4375701@0)

我笨我笨, 不但笨, 还傻 - 反正做傻瓜更开心, 嘿嘿 -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-5 (#4377194@0)

哎，难怪要那么多Write down，都怪Risk Mgmt：一个搞不定回中部去了，一个不务正业成天逛 Rolia。 -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-5 (#4377489@0)

还是郁闷 ... 同样郁闷的人就别看了, 只分享给好奇的不怕情绪污染的人看 -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-4 {2071} (#4375040@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛She resigned anyway.

It happened last Friday, after a nasty email was sent by the two Quants. She worked after midnight to complete a task, which was described by the two PhDs like she could never get it right. And whenever she asked questions, they made very obvious that she is not smart enough even to understand what they say. Although her personality is also strong, for this matter she had been trying hard to please them for months.

Well, that was the last straw, but mystically on the same day her laptop broke down, plus her one-year lease for the apartment is due renewal the next Monday. "Well it is enough", she decided, and sent the resignation letter to her manager, "I will just step out of here, without anything."

I felt myself such a loser --- I tried very bad to persuade her and cheer up her 4 month ago. It didn't really work. She reminded me of my early years, and I always remember Katherine Albright said, "if women don't help women, we are going to hell". My effort was not on the right direction, or just not powerful enough.

Well, she is so young, she is American, she has her master's degree, and she can afford whatever. She said she is heading to the younger, less political west coast. Maybe it will turn out to be a wise choice. Maybe. Hope she learned something from this 2 year's experience.

More and more I understand why people say, "Comparing with Toronto, New York is much less forgiving."

Comments heard from others:

A: "See, obviously a girl from the middle, New Yorkers will never do that --- neither package nor next employer!"
B: "I feel really bad, because I didn't treat her well in the past. Actually we don't even talk for quite some time after that project."
C: "It is interesting how the boss chose who to layoff --- although she is not doing great, yet those two will never leave by themselves like this!"
D: "I kinda understand why this happens. I myself don't enjoy people are so mean to each other either."
E: "Where is she going? It can't be true she is going home!"更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Lord, you are a girl. I have been treating you as a guy for long time. And your writing skill is superb! Is that girl not capable enough or simply those two PHD bastards are really mean? -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-4 (#4375651@0)

Hard to judge, cuz I don't have lots of details. Most likely half and half. -so_what(I do care); 2008-4-5 (#4377195@0)

That's the thing. 白人大多数字概念比较差，两极分化比较严重：如果不是数学特别好的话，多半就特别差。反过来，在他们的强项领域里（Relationship, Sales)：他们也可能很看不起少数族裔。都是人性的弱点，没办法。 -wanglaowu(花岗岩王老五); 2008-4-5 (#4377495@0)

这种工作真得压力很大。不是一般人愿意干的。不是大成功，就是被burn out。天下没有白吃的午餐。如果有家庭亲人能在旁帮助减压，会好一些。 -yxlz(Tom); 2008-4-10 (#4387639@0)

(#4339881@0) -axe(Just A Joke); 2008-4-3 (#4374407@0)

AT Kearney consulting 是被EDS 收购了又卖了. -czs10m(春夏秋冬); 2008-4-4 (#4375058@0)

@Ontario

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Age of Turbulence第5集，两个在Morgan Stanley的女孩子。

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