I would then try to find other positions elsewhere which would appreciate my "value". However, if I couldn't find any other positions meet my expectation, then there is actually no "不公".

barbarian(粗人)

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛This was what I told some my ex-colleagues when they fell unhappy of the pay.

We all need to realize that we are all in a market place to sell our service to employers. As as selling and buying any other things in a market, each party has its own interest/incentive. For example, if we notice a paint worth 1MM, but the selling is happy to just get 100K. Do we insist paying 1MM? I don't think so. I would be very happy to just pay 100K and get the 1MM worth of painting. It is very same when we "selling" our service. If you feel underpaid but never talk about it with your boss, and at same time, still work hard, your boss will of course assume you are happy (or even take advantage of you). To certain extend, it is our own responsibility, not employer's, to get fair pay.

There are always other opportunities elsewhere if you feel you won't get what you want from your current employer. However, if you tried and couldn't get any better offer, then there is nothing to complain, just try to improve your value.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

(#5885214@0)
Last Updated: 2010-2-15

同感。要胆大。要脸皮厚。不能谦虚谨慎。 -wincity(toad); 2010-2-14 (#5883131@0)

吃亏是福啊。 -pipibug(我真的是个歌剧爱好者); 2010-2-14 (#5883133@0)

加拿大有很多与中国一样的弊病，而且有些方面还更过之无不及。来久了就清楚了。在用人方面，许多部门的当权者和头头们是任人唯亲，嫉贤妒能。他们在面试和提升职员方面不喜欢那些比自己学历和能力强，对自己职位有潜在威胁的。而是要雇佣和提升能力比自己稍差些的， -lancelot(圆桌骑士); 2010-2-14 {94} (#5883156@0)

否则你得表现的特听话，会拍马屁。所以加拿大自己的未来发展没多大希望，永远要依靠邻居老美的照顾。

办公室政治哪里都有，理解适应就好，抱怨没有什么意义。因为如果你在那个位置上，一样要找对自己威胁小，和自己走得近的，就是所谓的“任人唯亲，嫉贤妒能”。 -szs11(Hedge); 2010-2-14 (#5883172@0)

没错！我就是这个意思。哈哈，钉子户也有与我一致的方面嘛。不过加拿大在这方面做得超烂，所以把那些不能理解和忍耐不下的人才往南边赶。倒不是老美做得有多好，至少比加拿大要好些。。 -lancelot(圆桌骑士); 2010-2-14 {112} (#5883185@0)
所以加拿大经过这么一过滤，剩下的都是些超能忍辱负重，心甘缩头不争者们。这就是造就所谓加拿大价值观的最主要因素之一

政治这个东西哪里都有，米国也不会例外。记得有个反例说某个500强,原本规定每年Review，淘汰百分之几，后来发现胜出的都是不太会干活的政治高手，公司流失很多优秀的人才，最后只好取消这种制度。 -szs11(Hedge); 2010-2-14 {42} (#5883223@0)
那么作为被流失的人是不是也应该加强政治呢？

It's IBM -qulaopo(娶老婆); 2010-2-14 (#5883294@0)
It's GE in Jack Welch time, later this rule was applied to sale person only, it is much easier to value sale person's performance. -hurrah(猫眼); 2010-2-14 (#5883345@0)

加拿大的productivity 只有美国的70%. 它有中国的人治的成本，却没有中国（或美国）那样的市场，增长，聪明，勤奋。 -into(into); 2010-2-14 (#5883318@0)

同感,从中国的TOP技术机构到美国的技术大公司,感觉管理还是井井有条的,职责分明目标明确;加拿大公司信奉的似乎是模糊数学,做事基本没准头,感觉一个国家的文化怎么能把一个个 -tomcattomcat(tomy); 2010-2-14 {52} (#5883456@0)
好端端的人毁得如此乱七八糟的去干活,而且自我感觉量好.

最关键的是起薪。如果起薪被压低了，就算表现优异，老板也不会一次把薪水给你提到市场的正常水平。老板是能省一分是一分，能省一年是一年。大多数情况下，跳槽是唯一的大幅加薪的办法。 -yossarian(running); 2010-2-14 (#5883349@0)

加拿大要不是有老美罩着, 早就流落街头了. 反正在加拿大就是有种发挥受限制的感觉, 你再有才能, 就是踩着你, 权在别人手上, 干着急也没办法, 所以说夺取政权的重要性. -sob(SOB); 2010-2-14 (#5883462@0)

同老美打交道,你对他错,只要他认识自己错了,一般都爽快的认错,换了加拿大人各种各样的XX型式就出来了. 看看前几天的TTC偷睡被摄的事,就是一例.以前小美有笨的懒的,但人大都 -tomcattomcat(tomy); 2010-2-14 {79} (#5883538@0)
比较实沉;有一次招了个加拿大来的小白,一天到晚就没几句实在话,那个油啊,白人中少见.

反正在加拿大啥时候都不要太认真, 钱多就行, 至于啥工作认真勤奋, 都是胡扯, 就看谁骗术高明. 加拿大人一般目光短浅, 得过且过, 还自我表现感觉良好. 不过办公室政治可是炉火纯青, 无师自通, 这可是一本地人跟我说的, 可见连本地人都受害于办公室政治. -sob(SOB); 2010-2-14 (#5883472@0)

你说的偶都同意。 -henhen(亨亨，明天会更好 *_*); 2010-2-14 (#5883502@0)

读书读“傻”了。你和老板之间纯粹的雇佣伙计关系。他炒你你炒他都是很正常的。千万不要带一点的感情。you pay what you get, you get what you pay. 至于钱就更应如此，他给的起你所要求的工资你就在这干，给不起就走。想和老板共同创业的除外。 -lier(骑牛旅行者); 2010-2-14 (#5883513@0)

哈哈，在加拿大，要有点流氓习气才行，跟流氓打交道你太正经了，吃亏的总会是你。反正皮要厚，心要黑，必要时要能耍泼，得到好处才是硬道理。 -newsky(rat); 2010-2-14 (#5883559@0)

在中美工作多年，到加拿大还是在名公司，才第一次见到男同事 "耍泼" ，天，那不亚于电视上的泼妇 -into(into); 2010-2-15 (#5884152@0)

怎么泼法？ -wincity(toad); 2010-2-15 (#5884157@0)

=电视上的泼妇 literally -into(into); 2010-2-15 (#5884161@0)

不用那么不平衡, 学历只对新手有用, 工作努力程度不一定跟成绩成比例. 有的人善于为自己争取, 有的人不擅长, 工资高资历浅的人, 遇到经济不景气是最危险的. -youbet(寻常巷陌); 2010-2-14 (#5883562@0)

多谢大家的热烈讨论。其实这篇文章是好几年以前写的了，现在我已经想明白了很多道理，比如“世间本不平，没有必要怨天尤人”，“学到的本事是自己的，谁也拿不走”，“天生我才必有用”... 现在换工作都是因为要找到真正合适自己的工作岗位和好的MANAGER。 -yuwen531(wenwen); 2010-2-16 (#5885453@0)

"世间本不平，没有必要怨天尤人" - nice say. -barbarian(粗人); 2010-2-16 (#5886206@0)

加拿大人骨子里比较下作, 公司里有些人没事总往领导办公室里钻, 往领导身边贴, 成天不干事, 就是采取各种手段拍马屁, 往往这些人能提拔加薪, 象你这样傻干的永远不会有出头之日的. -newsky(rat); 2010-2-14 (#5883568@0)

在这里技术不好没关系，一定要会BLAH BLAH。 -henhen(亨亨，明天会更好 *_*); 2010-2-14 (#5883577@0)
. -aaaaaaaaa(宣传多伦多真相); 2010-2-15 (#5884306@0)

我好像也是和你一样，埋头苦干型。只不过老板还不错，三个月加了两次薪。 -zxhaus(师太); 2010-2-15 (#5884066@0)

有些小公司反而比较重视人才, 办公室政治少, 政府部门, 大公司里基本是乌烟瘴气. -sob(SOB); 2010-2-15 (#5884087@0)

北美的中国人大部分都是吃苦耐劳型，不善于争取个人利益。是教育使然。很难改。 -pumba(无戒); 2010-2-15 {102} (#5884249@0)

不过，什么事情都是适可而止。光干不说不好，光耍嘴皮子或者斤斤计较也要不的。总的感觉，多干少说利大于弊。

如果觉得不公，应该提出来. this is it. -fchn951(Simon); 2010-2-15 (#5884766@0)

如果提出来，还是不公，你能咋的？ -newsky(rat); 2010-2-15 (#5884793@0)

I would then try to find other positions elsewhere which would appreciate my "value". However, if I couldn't find any other positions meet my expectation, then there is actually no "不公". -barbarian(粗人); 2010-2-15 {1036} (#5885214@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛This was what I told some my ex-colleagues when they fell unhappy of the pay.

We all need to realize that we are all in a market place to sell our service to employers. As as selling and buying any other things in a market, each party has its own interest/incentive. For example, if we notice a paint worth 1MM, but the selling is happy to just get 100K. Do we insist paying 1MM? I don't think so. I would be very happy to just pay 100K and get the 1MM worth of painting. It is very same when we "selling" our service. If you feel underpaid but never talk about it with your boss, and at same time, still work hard, your boss will of course assume you are happy (or even take advantage of you). To certain extend, it is our own responsibility, not employer's, to get fair pay.

There are always other opportunities elsewhere if you feel you won't get what you want from your current employer. However, if you tried and couldn't get any better offer, then there is nothing to complain, just try to improve your value.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

好一个阿Q! 加拿大就是这么一个地方, 到处是不公, 但又机会很少. -newsky(rat); 2010-2-16 (#5885481@0)

:) probably I am 阿Q. My point is if I am not getting what I wanted, the first person I need to blame is myself since I could always ask for it or simply find other places. simply complaining "到处是不公, 但又机会很少" won't help me in anyway. -barbarian(粗人); 2010-2-16 (#5885815@0)

@Ontario

I would then try to find other positions elsewhere which would appreciate my "value". However, if I couldn't find any other positions meet my expectation, then there is actually no "不公".

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