I don't worship him but just try to give a netural evaluation. -happy_life(happy_life) @安省华人论坛:安省枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Ontario

枫下沙龙 / 谈天说地 / 经典话题，我也说两句。其实抵质日货是一个有关情感和自尊的问题。 -rawer(rudder); 2002-5-15 {540} (#523018@0)
从历史上讲，日本受惠于中国最大，而掠夺伤害中国属它最甚最残忍；直到今天对其罪行也是打心眼里不想认账。日本货总体是好（否则就不用抵质了），但有血性的中国人应该在自己承受的起的限度内，宁可多花点多麻烦点也不让日本得利。（有时他国包括中国的产品也同样好，不要一味迷信日货、人云亦云。）若承受不起，买了日货，同胞也能体谅。我最恨以用日货为荣的人，对有血气的中国人冷嘲热讽，视抵质日货之士为傻冒。看着中国城里停的车十有八九是日本产（一般商场停的车十有三至五是日本产），我心里就悲哀。老婆骂句“真贱”很解气，但我心里却总感悲哀。
中国人真的人穷志短吗？

说的好，猛烈支持！ -z24(Z24); 2002-5-15 (#523035@0)

You've got a mail! -amber(琥珀); 2002-5-15 (#523050@0)

Right! Please don't feel proud for using the Japanese product. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523100@0)
说的好，想证明自己爱国的话一定别忘了把日本捎上 -tiger5z(tiger5z); 2002-5-15 (#523119@0)
please refer to #523106 -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523155@0)

Mao really made great contributions to china. Yes, he made big mistake. But If the Jap could apologize and compensate for what they have done, Maybe we wouldn't hate them so much. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523176@0)

伟大领袖的继承人也没有道歉呀。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523188@0)

毛给中国人做出过很多贡献，日本人对中国人做了什么？这2者不具有一点相比性 -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523198@0)

不想比较这两者。但是，做出巨大贡献的人就可以随意折腾吗？史无前例呀。五千年的文化，突然。。。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523206@0)

毛的功过是中国内部的问题，跟日本，是不可调和的敌我矛盾 -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523215@0)

您的这个定性有什么依据呢? 如我说的, 对中国人民的罪行深浅? 危害程度? -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523227@0)
愕然。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523245@0)

I would suggest you don't waste time to argue with these mainland guys, I think the big difference is we have a mind of American Chinese or Canadian Chinese, but their mind are still pretty mainland. -glenn2008(三國演義); 2002-5-15 {996} (#523784@0)
Today's Japan contributes to the world (include China) by actions, while mainland Chinese "contribute" to the world by "mouth", by lip service. They can't recognize today's Japan is the only democratic country in Asia, they can recognize today's Japanese market is the 2nd largest economy in the world, they can't recognize today's Japanese is the most polite people in the world (Local Taiwanese know that). They don't want to admit Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, Singapore, and China are learning Japan's experience to become rich. In 1980s, 1990s, until nowaday, Japan is a good example for the whole world to learn, including the MBA courses in 1990s.

Finally, they don't want to accept, appreciate, and learn all today's Japanese good things - this is the best way to make China rich and to "revenge". In the mean time, we also notice that people'morality, politeness, behavior in mainland are too "good" to be comment. Nothing we can do, let them Proud for themselves.

毛给中国人做出过很多贡献? 说来听听. -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 {144} (#523218@0)
杀地主富农, 三反五反, 反右,大跃进, 三年饥荒(史料证实, 是人祸而非自然灾害),四清, 文革, 武斗, 四五天安门?

就先不说四十年代内战时打死的中国人了.

日本对中国的贡献是什么？帮我们杀害30万南京同胞解决中国人口危机？那我们的妇女作为委安妇解决日本官兵的生理问题？？？ -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523229@0)

如果认为毛有贡献的话，　日本就更有贡献了． -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 {54} (#523238@0)
主要在经济方面的，日中贸易为多少中国人提供了就业机会？

经济问题是后话。如果中国派部队到日本去解决他们的邪教问题，日本人是不是也该感谢中国人民的热情相助呢？ -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 {160} (#523259@0)
如果没有中日贸易，日本有多少企业会面临倒闭？如果世界上所有的中国人真的都一致抵制日货，日本的制造业就该天天以泪洗面了。日本为此感激过中国人给他们做出的贡献没呢？

不扯远了，　我的意思在　#523253. -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523269@0)

我的意思是那属于中国人的内部矛盾；跟日本是敌我矛盾，性质上的不同. -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523278@0)

中日是民族矛盾, CCP的是反人类罪, 不是一句"内部矛盾"就蒙得过去的. 两者之间谁轻谁重你看着办. -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523295@0)

参见楼下enjoylife的观点 -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523298@0)

这是不同性质的问题, 日本是犯的战争罪, 是故意杀人, 而且是屠杀, 老毛是犯了错误, 但不是犯罪. 客观上是死了很多人, 但并不是他主观上想要杀这么多人, 还不是为了一夜追赶上美帝国主义, 我们就不用这么辛苦的背井离乡了 -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523294@0)

我感觉很可笑. CCP杀几百万, 害死几千万, 您居然就把它当成错误而已, 还替它找借口? (难怪日本人瞧不起中国人) -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523311@0)

如果量刑, 老毛也就是过失罪, 或渎职罪, 死多少人和什么性质的罪没有关系. -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523335@0)

我相信一百年后的教科书一定会吧毛同志列为20世纪十大恐怖魔头之一。最残忍的镇压不是杀人，而是屠杀思想和精神 -lover4u(I Love Jeep Liberty); 2002-5-15 {90} (#523383@0)
禁锢人类的心灵。看看现在多少中国知识分子唯唯诺诺，与五四时的反差多大你就知道毛的罪孽深重。

老毛的问题历史会有答案, 你我说了都不算, 而且这不关其它民族的事, 小日本就不同了. -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523390@0)

support! -tiger5z(tiger5z); 2002-5-15 (#523348@0)

错。在对地主、富农、资本家的革命过程中，主观上就是要将这些人从肉体到精神完全消灭，客观上没有完全成功。在后来的文化大革命中，主观上是为什么就没人说的清了，客观上不用我说。文化的命被革掉了，剩下的只有愚民。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523313@0)

I am waiting for this post! This is what I want to say. Support! -birdswimming(feifei); 2002-5-15 (#523331@0)
您认为这跟日本在中国故意杀害中国人是等同的？ -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523346@0)

我认为比日本侵华杀人还要严重. -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523351@0)

不同道，不同谋 -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523361@0)
你想说的可能是损失更大, 但是日本人的侵略性质和毛的问题是绝对不同的.不能相提并论的. -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523371@0)

皮皮猪他大舅，我发现这里好多人对CCP好象都苦大仇深的，有人甚至都不分敌我了。不同道，不同谋，争论起来也怪没意思的，咱停手，不如看看外边的阳光吧,hoho -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523398@0)

对CPP苦大仇深是另一码事, 不能因此把小日本和CPP相提并论, 这根本不是可以相比的范畴. 外面的世界是不错. 赏花了. -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523426@0)

你说过这两者是不具有一点相比性。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523355@0)

在这里比较CCP跟日本根本就是跑题:p.hehe -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523364@0)

抵制日货的原因，是因为日本在中国的罪行，并且至今不道歉。那么，是不是所有对中国有罪的并且不道歉的都应当抵制？ -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523373@0)

老毛是犯了错误, 但不是犯罪. 如果量刑, 老毛也就是过失罪, 或渎职罪, 死多少人和什么性质的罪没有关系.你抵制老毛, 可以, 你准备抵制什么东西呢? -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523378@0)

#523253 -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523400@0)

这是另一码事, 但不能因此说什么毛的问题比小日本严重. 小日本的问题和毛的问题根本没有可比性. 不能相提并论的. -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523415@0)

Well, if not for CCP, China wouldn't have been so poor and Japs wouldn't have looked down upon us like they do now. -dennis2(Dennis); 2002-5-15 (#523430@0)

民族感情的问题//抵制与抵制与否，好象也是个人的选择问题，没所谓对与错吧.:p -why(落花蝶独立); 2002-5-15 (#523382@0)

什么叫民族感情？中国两岸三地五十多个民族有多少种民族感情？因为有辆日本车就被骂做“真贱”是什么感情？抵制是个人选择，骂人也是个人选择。但不要以为自己这样做了才是爱国，这种爱国只能误国。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523425@0)

阶级斗争中和政治斗争和战争侵略是两码事吧? 法国资产阶级革命的时候死没死人? -enjoylife(小皮皮猪的㊣大舅); 2002-5-15 (#523363@0)

反人类罪. -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523328@0)

no jap, no ccp's china, is it a big contribution? hoho -xssh(xssh); 2002-5-15 (#523223@0)

exactly -dennis2(Dennis); 2002-5-15 (#523254@0)

Killing millions of people is only a "big mistake"? hoho. //Further, did CCP apologize or compensate to anybody it killed? -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523191@0)

Notice: They have made great contribution for china first. And I repeat: if jap really apologize, we will feel much better. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523201@0)

When and what did they make the contribution? -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523261@0)

Also, Japan has made great contributions to china, then? -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523197@0)
说说具体有哪些"really great contributions"?mao与西特乐不同的是：killing millions of "own" people.他的后半生完全是在愚弄和利用老百姓。现在还在说他“功大于过”是他的过已经掩盖不了了。而且 -tiger5z(tiger5z); 2002-5-15 {44} (#523242@0)
现在反毛就是反党，还没有到全面否认他的时候。

Right! Lot of people believe Mao's mistake > his Achievement. But you can not deny he really do some contributions for china. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523273@0)

give me some substantial zamples?the result is lots of victims like you still worshiped him without any reason. -tiger5z(tiger5z); 2002-5-15 (#523336@0)

I don't worship him but just try to give a netural evaluation. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 {1020} (#523619@0)
I have different opinion with you about Mao's action. You can not just say I am wrong because I can also say you are blind.

So let's just talk some same opinion about Mao, Do you agree?
1. Mao is a leader or tyrant of china.
2. Mao united china.
3. Mao left lot of lessons and experience to Chinese.
4. Mao has changed chinese history.

I believe there are more ideas we all agree. So let's try to list it all and check them one by one. Someone did it long time ago and I was deeply impressed by his impartial attitude. I didn't say Mao is perfect but let's compare him with other tyrants or leader like Napolen,QingShiHuang and so on. We will find Mao is the same kind of person.(Maybe you can compare him to Hilter)

Nobody is perfect, What we do is weigh his achievements and mistakes.

Only 30 years ago, Mao was almost like a flawless leader but now we know his dark side more and more. Maybe this isn't the right time to make a conclusion. What we should do is try to find more and more truth.

您的意思是让我们抵制湖南菜? -icesnowman(爱江山也爱美人); 2002-5-15 (#523236@0)

我的意思是，　相比之下，　日本还不够格让咱们中国人抵制． -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 {46} (#523253@0)
严肃地说，中国的当务之急不是反日，而是民主化．

说得好。 -christopher_robins(符罗宾); 2002-5-15 (#523171@0)
车是代步工具，我以自己的车为荣，是因为它不出毛病。赶巧是辆日本车，就被你老婆骂句真践。如果赶巧是辆朝鲜车，你老婆会说什么呢？我家里各国货色都有，你老婆是不是要一会儿骂我一会儿夸我了？ -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523184@0)

骂人当然是不对的，不过你买了一辆日本车，就不许别人谈论抵制日货吗？ -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-5-15 (#523421@0)

我不抵制日货跟我有没有日本车没关系。我从来没有禁止过别人谈论抵制。但是，我支持站长禁止宣扬民族仇恨的帖子。国与国之间，没有永久的盟友，也没有永久的敌人。中国应该强大，而不是时刻与人为敌。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-5-15 (#523455@0)

我不认为抵制日货是宣扬民族仇恨。你应该就事论事。 -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-5-15 (#523933@0)

如果不是因为仇恨而抵制日货，那是因为什么？嫉妒？自卑？ -fake1(fake); 2002-5-15 (#524047@0)

看看先后次序再说吧。 -tiger5z(tiger5z); 2002-5-15 (#523469@0)

你要愿意把日货和情感与自尊联系起来，是你的自由，不过，在别人眼里，看作愚蠢和幼稚也是别人的自由。 -- 就象我现在看美国车，就证明我比较爱国？ -fxid(外地民工模样的人); 2002-5-15 (#523212@0)

The requirment is so simple: Please Don't proud for choosing Jap product. It doesn't mean you can not buy it. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523230@0)

Some people be proud of obtaining a good deal, so what? -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523274@0)

Yes , I can do nothing about it and Maybe I will glad for them. What I mean is that you don't need to be PROUD for choosing jap product! -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523302@0)

In fact, being proud or not, that's none of other's business. -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-5-15 (#523318@0)

That's the truth and that's your real mind. What you thinking and doing is none of the other's bussiness. Right! I totoally agree it with you. Please just be more patient. -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#523353@0)

中国日本货最多, 你应该回中国去抗日. 中国用几千亿UAD的日元贷款, 这些设备能把长江添平了, 你能作甚??? -playtiger(小皮皮猪的㊣迷踪拳师); 2002-5-15 (#523262@0)

说起低息日元贷款，始于中国放弃对日索赔之时，应该理解为日本政府对于过去战争罪行的一种变相补偿。数量也没有你说得那么多，累计不到3万亿日元。现在看来，类似于一种卖方信贷，对日本经济也是大有好处。 -z24(Z24); 2002-5-15 (#523716@0)

哈哈哈，大笑三声，说得真好！ -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-5-15 (#523314@0)
clueless talking -mssg(mssg); 2002-5-15 (#523377@0)
空洞的口号，不切实际的设想，不说也罢。 -zulu(新长征路上的摇滚); 2002-5-15 (#523394@0)

为什么不能提倡抵制日货, 他们曾经对中国人作了那么多惨绝人寰的罪行, 我们都不能有一点反应和合理的行动来表示我们的抗议, 不要提什么外交政策, 不要讲ccp杀了多少人, -balabalaboo(小); 2002-5-15 {593} (#523595@0)
如果你无视或不在意这段屈辱的历史, 你尽可以做你喜欢的事, 没有人强迫, 只是提倡嘛. 其实我们生活中多多少少都用过买过日本货, 提倡抵制不是杜绝, 而且也无法杜绝, 抵制日货的目的,是提醒每个中国人, 日本曾经, 一直都不是友善的对待我们, 我们能做的到除了让大家不忘历史外, 更重要的是让中国强大. ccp曾经犯过的错误, 已经让他们反省, 邓小平所做的一切不过是弥补,中国历来是集权统治的社会, 如今不管怎么讲, 都在一天天向好的方向发展, 历史沉积的淤泥不可能一天两天,一年两年挖完, 但有目共睹, 国家是朝着发展的方向前进. 新中国成立后所经历的一切不会被抹煞, 这是中国封建统治数千年的悲哀, 对历史人物的评判也一定会有公正的结论,

我一直相信Action speaks louder than words. 我不知道大家对日本和日本民族有多少了解，我个人在日本待了4年(希望不要因此背上汉奸的帽子)，我的感觉就是日本人最大的特点就是欺软 -zulu(新长征路上的摇滚); 2002-5-15 {479} (#523817@0)
怕硬。当年美国的两颗原子弹让日本人服气了几十年，直到80年代开始，日本的泡沫经济开始形成，大有超过美国的势头的时候，日本国内的很多人也开始叫喊向美国说NO，但泡沫经济破灭后，日本人又开始向美国低头示弱，一切听从美国的安排了。如果我们中国人取代日本人造出当前世界上运行最快的计算机的话，我们也没必要在这里谈道歉，赔偿之类的话题了。更不用为每年的几十亿日元贷款来作小动作了。与其多花钱，花精力去维护而不买日本货的话，倒不如省下金钱，时间去建立中国自己的SONY，丰田，NEC，松下。。。。。。。

现在才想起来被带走题了，再次请教olivetree一下。见#524102 -happy_life(happy_life); 2002-5-15 (#524161@0)

@Ontario

I don't worship him but just try to give a netural evaluation.

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