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今天的NationalPost的文章。提出以前殖民地时期,从各位收集到西方国家的文物,最好是留在西方。提出理由甚多。 ---- The best place for 'looted' artifacts? Right where they are (ZT)

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1)这些文物是被西方人发现的,他们以前的宗主国都不识宝,是西方人发现了他们而且当作宝贝。
2)宗主国的历史变迁,使得原来的主人找不到了。所以这些文物没有主了。
3)留在西方可以传播文化,可以在博物馆里面展出。有文化上的价值,而且文化上的价值更大。

大家评论一下。

A museum director fights back

The best place for 'looted' artifacts? Right where they are

Robert Fulford, National Post

Ideology, politics and bone-headed provincialism come together comfortably when they make war on the world's great museums.

The issue is cultural property. Countries believing that colonialists stole their spiritual heritage are uniting in a send-back-our-stuff campaign. They envision populations and art objects moving in opposite directions: While citizens try to emigrate to Europe and North America for better lives, art objects should travel the other way, delivering national identity and self-esteem through ancient artifacts.

Greece yearns for the return of the Elgin Marbles, owned by the British Museum since they were taken from the Parthenon in 1803. Peru wants Yale University to return thousands of Inca artifacts discovered by the Yale historian who uncovered the lost mountainside town of Machu Picchu in 1911.

Turkey, China, Cambodia, Guatemala -- they all pine, if you believe their political leaders, for fragments of their distant past that are held abroad and must be brought "home" where they "belong."

And then there's Egypt. The government has its eye on the Rosetta Stone, a fragment of rock that opened up ancient Egyptian culture. It was carved for a temple in 196 BC but later abandoned and used as building material. French soldiers accidentally discovered it in 1799 while rebuilding a fort in the city of Rosetta during Napoleon's brief reign over Egypt. When the British moved in, they shipped it to the Brit-ish Museum.

The text inscribed on the stone, itself a document of craven colonialism, announces an agreement between Egyptian priests and Ptolemy V, the Macedonian ruler of Egypt, praising the generosity of Ptolemy and promising to demonstrate loyalty by erecting statues of him in the holiest places.

It's utterly boring but it's trilingually boring, in ancient Greek, Egyptian hieroglyphics and Egyptian demotic (the everyday language of contracts). In 1822 a French Egyptologist cracked the hieroglyphics code and thereby learned to translate ancient Egyptian.

Who now deserves to own such a wondrous object? The state of Macedonia, or maybe the Macedonian part of Greece? Unfortunately, populations have shifted so much in two millennia that neither can demonstrate historical continuity with 196 BC. Nor can Egypt. No one pretends that 2009 Egyptians are the same people who pledged fealty to that alien king. Modern France has a case, for guessing the text's importance in 1799 and decoding it just 23 years later. But on fifth thought, perhaps the Rosetta Stone should remain in the British Museum, where it's been well treated for two centuries.

That's more or less the argument behind Whose Culture? The Promise of Museums and the Debate Over Antiquities (Princeton University Press), by James Cuno, director of the Art Institute of Chicago, and nine fellow professionals. Cuno, the author of another book on the same subject last year, has emerged as the champion of museums who want to keep their holdings -- and not a moment too soon.

For years, the emotional propaganda of rights-asserting nations has been winning this war and scoring some specific victories. The Italians managed to get the Boston Museum of Fine Arts to send 68 objects to Rome, and Yale has agreed to send some Machu Picchu material to Peru -- though not nearly as fast as Peru would like.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are using the ownership controversy as another nail in what they hope will be the coffin of Israel. For more than half a century,

Israel has possessed the Dead Sea Scrolls -- discovered in the middle part of the 20th century in caves near the Dead Sea's northwest shore -- exhibiting them in Jerusalem, and sending them around the world. Some of these two-millennium-old documents are to arrive at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto on June 27, for a six-month stay. But the Palestinians have decided, after all this time, that the scrolls were found on what they (dubiously) consider Palestinian land, therefore Palestinians own them. The Toronto Star recently displayed this nonsense on page one.

Cuno believes major museums, with their Enlightenment-inspired dedication to spreading knowledge, can best protect antiquities, study them and reveal the relationships of distinct ancient cultures by exhibiting them side by side. Cuno speaks the cosmopolitan language of cultural pluralism. The other side, insisting that art remain where it happened to be found, deploys the rhetoric of jealous nationalism in the service of government.

Culture matters more than concocted national pride, as curators and museum directors know. At last they're reasserting their principles, after an embarrassing period of passivity and pusillanimity.

robert.fulford@utoronto.ca更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下茶话 / 政治经济 / 今天的NationalPost的文章。提出以前殖民地时期,从各位收集到西方国家的文物,最好是留在西方。提出理由甚多。 ---- The best place for 'looted' artifacts? Right where they are (ZT)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1)这些文物是被西方人发现的,他们以前的宗主国都不识宝,是西方人发现了他们而且当作宝贝。
    2)宗主国的历史变迁,使得原来的主人找不到了。所以这些文物没有主了。
    3)留在西方可以传播文化,可以在博物馆里面展出。有文化上的价值,而且文化上的价值更大。

    大家评论一下。

    A museum director fights back

    The best place for 'looted' artifacts? Right where they are

    Robert Fulford, National Post

    Ideology, politics and bone-headed provincialism come together comfortably when they make war on the world's great museums.

    The issue is cultural property. Countries believing that colonialists stole their spiritual heritage are uniting in a send-back-our-stuff campaign. They envision populations and art objects moving in opposite directions: While citizens try to emigrate to Europe and North America for better lives, art objects should travel the other way, delivering national identity and self-esteem through ancient artifacts.

    Greece yearns for the return of the Elgin Marbles, owned by the British Museum since they were taken from the Parthenon in 1803. Peru wants Yale University to return thousands of Inca artifacts discovered by the Yale historian who uncovered the lost mountainside town of Machu Picchu in 1911.

    Turkey, China, Cambodia, Guatemala -- they all pine, if you believe their political leaders, for fragments of their distant past that are held abroad and must be brought "home" where they "belong."

    And then there's Egypt. The government has its eye on the Rosetta Stone, a fragment of rock that opened up ancient Egyptian culture. It was carved for a temple in 196 BC but later abandoned and used as building material. French soldiers accidentally discovered it in 1799 while rebuilding a fort in the city of Rosetta during Napoleon's brief reign over Egypt. When the British moved in, they shipped it to the Brit-ish Museum.

    The text inscribed on the stone, itself a document of craven colonialism, announces an agreement between Egyptian priests and Ptolemy V, the Macedonian ruler of Egypt, praising the generosity of Ptolemy and promising to demonstrate loyalty by erecting statues of him in the holiest places.

    It's utterly boring but it's trilingually boring, in ancient Greek, Egyptian hieroglyphics and Egyptian demotic (the everyday language of contracts). In 1822 a French Egyptologist cracked the hieroglyphics code and thereby learned to translate ancient Egyptian.

    Who now deserves to own such a wondrous object? The state of Macedonia, or maybe the Macedonian part of Greece? Unfortunately, populations have shifted so much in two millennia that neither can demonstrate historical continuity with 196 BC. Nor can Egypt. No one pretends that 2009 Egyptians are the same people who pledged fealty to that alien king. Modern France has a case, for guessing the text's importance in 1799 and decoding it just 23 years later. But on fifth thought, perhaps the Rosetta Stone should remain in the British Museum, where it's been well treated for two centuries.

    That's more or less the argument behind Whose Culture? The Promise of Museums and the Debate Over Antiquities (Princeton University Press), by James Cuno, director of the Art Institute of Chicago, and nine fellow professionals. Cuno, the author of another book on the same subject last year, has emerged as the champion of museums who want to keep their holdings -- and not a moment too soon.

    For years, the emotional propaganda of rights-asserting nations has been winning this war and scoring some specific victories. The Italians managed to get the Boston Museum of Fine Arts to send 68 objects to Rome, and Yale has agreed to send some Machu Picchu material to Peru -- though not nearly as fast as Peru would like.

    Meanwhile, Palestinians are using the ownership controversy as another nail in what they hope will be the coffin of Israel. For more than half a century,

    Israel has possessed the Dead Sea Scrolls -- discovered in the middle part of the 20th century in caves near the Dead Sea's northwest shore -- exhibiting them in Jerusalem, and sending them around the world. Some of these two-millennium-old documents are to arrive at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto on June 27, for a six-month stay. But the Palestinians have decided, after all this time, that the scrolls were found on what they (dubiously) consider Palestinian land, therefore Palestinians own them. The Toronto Star recently displayed this nonsense on page one.

    Cuno believes major museums, with their Enlightenment-inspired dedication to spreading knowledge, can best protect antiquities, study them and reveal the relationships of distinct ancient cultures by exhibiting them side by side. Cuno speaks the cosmopolitan language of cultural pluralism. The other side, insisting that art remain where it happened to be found, deploys the rhetoric of jealous nationalism in the service of government.

    Culture matters more than concocted national pride, as curators and museum directors know. At last they're reasserting their principles, after an embarrassing period of passivity and pusillanimity.

    robert.fulford@utoronto.ca更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 成龙的说够了,大家来谈谈这个嘛。明摆着就是不归还任何殖民时期掠夺的任何文物。大家批批嘛,捧捧嘛。
      • 文物这东西
        文物的价值, 体现在你失去它的时候. 当你拥有它的时候, 它就是个烧钱的货.

        文物是需要花钱养的. 一个恒温, 恒湿, 无尘, 无紫外线, 防盗, 防洪, 防震, 防火的贮藏环境, 一年要花多少钱? 保险费一年要多少钱?

        文物当然值钱, 可是, 当你把它的价值兑现了, 比如说把它卖了, 你就失去它了.

        上面这些, 是文物的拥有者要操心的, 如果不是富得流油钱没处花了, 就别折腾文物这东西.

        对于国家来说, 不是每个国家都能够有一个安全的环境来让文物呆着的. 战乱, 破四旧, 武斗, 宗教运动, 政治运动, 反封建, 反迷信, 现代化改造, 这些因素都可以是文物的灭顶之灾.

        所以说, 有些个人没有能力拥有文物, 有些国家也没有资格拥有文物.
        • 啥时间尊重人了, 文物才能体现其价值和得到保护.否则, 文物对某些人来说只是个性器. 往往在没用的时候才拿出来现现.
    • 三点都没错。只是不能略去文物是非法途径获得的这样一个事实。而所有观点基于的理论依据是文物的价值而非所有权性。中国不能很好的保存自己的文物,破四旧毁去了大量的文物。而残留西方的文物得到了很好的保藏。但是中国的错误是不能用来佐证西方掠夺文物的正确性。
      这就有点强盗理论了。
      • 问题是这个里面的事例都没有提到中国。而是世界其他国家,包括积极保护文物,而且积极索取的国家。我们不说中国。说急了,又给挪到时政了。我认为这个比较强盗。
        1)用殖民地时期的例子来说宗主国不能识别文物。当初不识,现在还不识?明显的强盗逻辑。
        3)什么文物放在目前的博物馆可能发挥作用。埃及的文物,埃及人民有钱去西方国家看吗?不说埃及。说土耳其,说波斯。这些文化都没有中断,他们的文物他们自己的人民没有看到,能发挥出什么文化作用?

        典型的优越文化心态。我替他们害臊。
        • 可以促进文化交流, 让西方人看到其他文明的伟大. 作为其他文明, 比如中华文明, 已经伟大的不得了了, 要那些文物干啥? 免得有人整天躺在老祖宗身上YY.