你这个公式害人不浅, 千万别这么做 -victorzhou(patty) @安省华人论坛:安省枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Ontario

你这个公式害人不浅, 千万别这么做

victorzhou(patty)

我的一个多伦多朋友,开始在美国找工作时,代理问他要多少. 他说15万.结果对方一阵笑声后再也没了回音.后来他降到12万.还是没人理他.过了几个月,他只好自己往一些公司直接发.正赶上某著名大公司前一阵在多伦多猛招人(很多roliaor都去了,参见美国话题).给了个面试.人家又问要多少,他说10万.人家也没跟他砍价.直接就给了一个8万的offer.他过去一看,部门里新招的人中,他还算高的.

如果想知道某地某行业的工资水平,最好问当地的华人.看那些报告没什么用.

比如你想了解多伦多的收入水平,其实一个intermediate的IT也就是6-7万.很有经验的8-9万.然后就非常难往上了.除非当经理,销售等.或有特殊的证书(如CCIE, SAP).任何城市都有这种"上限".

(#3015458@0)
Last Updated: 2006-6-7
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一个小建议，如果你现在有工作，你的薪水的数字乘1.25到1.5。如果你没加拿大经验但有中国工作经历，你所认为的加拿大高工资乘1.5到2。以此为基准以后再调整。撑死胆大的，饿死胆小的。朋友中无一感觉自己当年开的工资够高的。 -cadillac(为解放全人类而奋斗的); 2006-6-7 (#3015247@0)

你这个公式害人不浅, 千万别这么做 -victorzhou(patty); 2006-6-7 {593} (#3015458@0)
我的一个多伦多朋友,开始在美国找工作时,代理问他要多少. 他说15万.结果对方一阵笑声后再也没了回音.后来他降到12万.还是没人理他.过了几个月,他只好自己往一些公司直接发.正赶上某著名大公司前一阵在多伦多猛招人(很多roliaor都去了,参见美国话题).给了个面试.人家又问要多少,他说10万.人家也没跟他砍价.直接就给了一个8万的offer.他过去一看,部门里新招的人中,他还算高的.

如果想知道某地某行业的工资水平,最好问当地的华人.看那些报告没什么用.

比如你想了解多伦多的收入水平,其实一个intermediate的IT也就是6-7万.很有经验的8-9万.然后就非常难往上了.除非当经理,销售等.或有特殊的证书(如CCIE, SAP).任何城市都有这种"上限".

同意..cadillac 同学毁人不倦. :) -nix(梦似烟花心似水); 2006-6-7 (#3015705@0)

哈哈哈，俺这个人可能Credit不怎么好啊，还好有人还惦记着俺。 -cadillac(为解放全人类而奋斗的); 2006-6-7 (#3015851@0)

呵呵，澄清一下，完全没有说你Credit 不好的意思。只不过你的大部分观点我都不敢苟同，薪水也好，房价也好，不过我一般不和人多argue 的，求同存异吧。 -nix(梦似烟花心似水); 2006-6-7 (#3016352@0)

好奇."著名大公司前一阵在多伦多猛招人" 什么时候，什么公司? -vicky2005(孩子她爹); 2006-6-7 (#3015853@0)

Microsoft -ustax(roliatax); 2006-6-7 (#3015863@0)

Microsoft的低工资在这个行业里是最出名的，其次是IBM。两个的工资和福利都是闻名天下地低。星岛当年还大篇幅登应聘IBM的人在雨中排了多长的队，IBM当时一个PM才给54k。 -cadillac(为解放全人类而奋斗的); 2006-6-7 (#3015903@0)

MS and IBM have quite good benefit plan, though maybe not the best. Their salary level is just a little bit below average. Not that bad. -victorzhou(patty); 2006-6-7 {1656} (#3016302@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛80K in Seattle is not a bad salary. You will find many people are earning surprising low income in US.

My point is: US job market does not have the high salary as you expected. MS used to have very bad salary (35K in mid-90's). But now it's giving competitive compensation because the stock option means nothing nowadays. I heard Cisco and HP have really bad reputation in salary. Such as 80K in Sillicon Valley. But no evidence so far.

According to your story, I understand your point. People had hard time during these years in Toronto's job market. If people only earn 40K in Toronto, yes, they can try to ask for 80K at most of US cities in west or east coast, or even more. However, you will also find that it's hard to get a job with more than 85-90K (permanent). Again, I'm talking about people using TN1, not local people with green card and US experience.

Going to US likes our going to Canada a few years ago. It's re-shuffling the cards. I was earning about 90K in Canada. This number did help me a little bit to get a "matching" salary, but no more. What I can choose is to find a city with low living expense. As I mentioned, there's "ceiling" for technical jobs in each city.

The good news is: there's still some room for us to get better compensation after we got green card or something. There're currently 2 challenges for us TN holders:
1) We need a stable work permission
2) We need local working experience

Anyway, US is a paradise of career for people in Canada. It's not because the salary will be much higher. It's because there're many job opportunities. Too many, from a canadian point of view.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

microsoft的一个contract SDE2，42/hr是不是算比较高了?当初被我狠狠地据掉了，想想microsoft出这么低的工资。 -steve888(Steve曾经曰过); 2006-6-7 (#3016306@0)

你说的是不是通过Volt 来的？如果是的话也没什么奇怪，他们当然要扒你一层了。我当时也是”狠狠“把Volt 拒掉了，不过没你那么牛，只是拒绝自费去onsite. -nix(梦似烟花心似水); 2006-6-7 (#3016343@0)

忘了哪个公司了。好像是一群印巴人。他们出一半的费用。我懒得动弹，不去！ -steve888(Steve曾经曰过); 2006-6-7 (#3016349@0)

想知道真正的full time SDE2在microsoft拿多少？ -steve888(Steve曾经曰过); 2006-6-7 (#3016361@0)

I couldn't agree with you more. "What I can choose is to find a city with low living expense." Could you recommend some cities? Thanks. -westlake(westlake); 2006-6-7 (#3016442@0)

Dallas, taxas, house price 83-100usd/per sq ft, Sr engineer nomally 80k+, no state tax, property tax may high but not so high,heat summer -wu831(NA); 2006-6-7 (#3016890@0)

说得不错，在加元几乎和美元等值的今天，指望去美国赚更多的钱不太容易，特别对拿TN的第一份工作，在美国找个时薪60的CONTRACT也算可以接受 -ora600(ORA-00600); 2006-6-7 (#3016443@0)

可惜我在加拿大连时薪10加元的CONTRACT工作也找不到。 -menlopark(Menlo Park); 2006-6-7 (#3016678@0)

俺给的只是基数，调整是必然的。俺想很多人理解为什么俺给出这样的公式的。说个笑话... -cadillac(为解放全人类而奋斗的); 2006-6-7 {658} (#3015893@0)
俺最初有一个面试，人家问俺要多少，俺说4w。结果人家笑了笑让俺回家了。其实俺还是很合适的，好歹亲自管过multi-million Canadian dollar的项目。只是那是一个管理职位，至少要8w。但那时候不知道，以为俺的要价太高了。结果从此只找技术职位，而且行情不高于4w的那些。明白有多害死人了吧。

找工作也是一场意志的拉锯。有锯掉几个到手的offer的牛气才能吊到大鱼。这个世界上多高薪水的职位都有，关键是时机和自己究竟是不是值这个价钱。当然如果从来没有在加拿大专业工作过，我可以想象他们的士气有多低迷。所以乘的系数要大一点。

对Agent来说，有专攻低工资的，有专攻高工资的。对雇主来说，低工资从来不是专业职位的选项。俺被人雇，俺interview过别人，俺现在也雇人，俺想俺的公式还是有道理的。

check your professional association's salary survey. -bluecactus(miaomiao); 2006-6-7 (#3015387@0)

Thanks. -anlu(安鲁); 2006-6-7 (#3015451@0)

i think VOLT or dice has some kind forum which has the survey about the salaries. -ice(梦里不知身是客); 2006-6-7 (#3015464@0)

. -sq1(土肥圆); 2006-6-7 (#3015630@0)

@Ontario

你这个公式害人不浅, 千万别这么做

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