I landed Toronto in 1999, and have landed US recently. -victorzhou(patty) @安省华人论坛:安省枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Ontario

枫下茶话 / 美国话题 / 闲来无事, 做个统计, 看看有多少人愿意在加拿大安家. 本人2001年初登陆, 身边朋友(2001年或者之后来的朋友)大概30%左右5年之内不会离开加拿大, 其他已经离开或正要离开 -csb(CSB); 2006-4-16 {92} (#2908466@0)
离开的人中大概30%的人左右回去国内发展, 其它70%南下美国发展. 本人IT业从业, 朋友也是物已内聚吧

人2000年初登陆, 身边朋友大概90%左右已经离开或正要离开,大概30%的人左右回去国内发展, 其它70%南下美国发展,本人IT业从业, 朋友也是物已内聚 -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-16 (#2908483@0)

Landing时身边的朋友90%还在加拿大。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-17 (#2910185@0)

50%买了房子。不过有趣的是收入低的50%买了房子。买房子的顺序由年收入低的最先买起。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-17 (#2910189@0)

高收入, 高 Skill, 高 Expectation. Most important, your dream. 美国 dream maker -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-17 (#2910898@0)

这又犯病了 -victroy(AlwayWin); 2006-4-17 (#2911442@0)

在我看来。房子和车子不是问题，老婆孩子不是问题。关键是什么样的房子和什么样的车子，什么样的老婆和什么样的孩子。我这个年纪的人不提什么美国梦、欧洲梦的了，只提自己还有什么样的梦。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914769@0)

97年登陆,身边朋友大概90%左右已经离开,大概10%的人左右回去国内发展,90%南下美国发展,本人IT业从业, 朋友也是物已内聚. -oopp(ops); 2006-4-16 (#2908504@0)

那么去美国的朋友他们现在都是什么状况呢? TN?H1B?GC? -mobile668(bird); 2006-4-16 (#2908517@0)

H1B,GC -oopp(ops); 2006-4-16 (#2908518@0)

都是从TN转的吗? 他们开始去美国是什么身份啊? -mobile668(bird); 2006-4-16 (#2908521@0)

TN -oopp(ops); 2006-4-16 (#2908522@0)

那么现在持GC的朋友, 他们是如何办到GC的呢? 花了多长时间? 他们背景如何? 是公司办的还是找律师办的,或是自己办的? 可以分享一个你觉得最成功的我们可以借鉴的例子吗? 不好意思问题好多, 谢谢了 -mobile668(bird); 2006-4-16 (#2908545@0)

2001年过去,国内EE MASTER,.加拿大CS本科学历.2005拿到GC,公司给办的. -oopp(ops); 2006-4-16 (#2908563@0)

请问从开始办到最后拿到一共多长时间？ -buickregal(CISACPACIACISSP); 2006-4-16 (#2909518@0)

本人01年登陆，04年回国发展，近期准备去美发展。对加拿大没有长期信心。 -cleverman(cleverman); 2006-4-16 (#2908602@0)
本人，200年底登陆，近期找到专业工作，在加拿大。目标：去美国工作。。 -111111(快乐老家); 2006-4-16 (#2908828@0)

loooooong life. -holly999(酒肴肴-就是下酒小菜); 2006-4-16 (#2908927@0)
美国是不需要连数字都搞不清的人的. 老家, 你还需努力. 呵呵 -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-4-16 (#2909549@0)

就你和我作对。是啊，怎么连今年是哪一年都弄错了？坏了，越做工程师，越不会算数了。。 -111111(快乐老家); 2006-4-17 (#2911186@0)
那是电脑故障，我们公司不介意，可以来试试 -zhang1081(熊猫@^@); 2006-4-20 (#2916821@0)

哈哈，我周围的是在加拿大长期找不到专业工的去美国，而在加有好工作的去的并不多 -hunhuner(混混儿); 2006-4-16 (#2908994@0)

那些去美国的朋友是去读书还是工作呢? -mobile668(bird); 2006-4-16 (#2909256@0)

工作 -hunhuner(混混儿); 2006-4-16 (#2909358@0)

也不一定，男儿志在四方，一个地方呆的时间长会腻味的。趁年轻到处走走。 -steve888(Steve); 2006-4-16 (#2909467@0)
我知道的愿意呆在这里的IT们有几种情况: 1. 夫妻双方都有比较高的收入 2. 年龄稍大的象接近或者超过40岁, 小孩不小. 除此之外我真的没有发现很多人满意现状, 高税收, 低就业率, 工作不稳定, 天气不好 -csb(CSB); 2006-4-16 (#2909527@0)

安省的税率并不高，比许多美国州都要低。投资安省的第二大原因是税率低。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-17 (#2910192@0)

Do not mislead people. New York state and California have the highest state tax but no way compare with Ontario. A family making 150K have to pay 10K more when living in Ontario. -cerboros(Once Upon Great King); 2006-4-17 (#2911157@0)

你给说说ontario怎么要多交10k的税? 美国那些州的税比ontario低，税低的州占总数的百分比是多少？ -elmst200(Kirkpatrick); 2006-4-17 {1167} (#2911171@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛一个例子如下：

2005年收入7万的单身或14万的夫妻在Ontario的交税情况

2005年收入7万的单身没有任何deduction/dependents/..., 在ontario要交$16,818.30的
联邦和省税，税率为总收入的24.03%。

考虑到这个单身还付出了$1,400的养老金CPP和$760的失业保险EI，税收/CPP/EI为总收入
的27.11%.

如果家庭年收入14万，夫妻各7万，没有小孩和其他deduction/dependants, 税率和单身7
万的相同。

单身7万的具体计算如下：

Income
Total income: $70,000
Net income: $70,000
Taxable income: $70,000

Federal deduction
Basic personal amount: $8,648
Total federal non-refundable tax credits: $1,621.28

Net federal tax: $11,286.82

Ontario deduction
Basic personal amount: $8,196
Ontario non-refundable tax credits: 626.57

Ontario health premium: $600

Net province tax and health premium: $5,531.48

Total tax (federal and provincial): $16,818.30

gross tax rate: $16,818.30/$70,000 = 24.03%

Employee pension (CPP) contrition through employment: $1,400
Employee paid Employment Insurance (EI) premiums: $760

Employee total payment (tax plus CPP and EI): $18978.30

Gross tax rate including CPP and EI: $18978.30/$70,000 = 27.11%更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

DOn't misleading. 如果家庭年收入14万，夫10万, 妻4万, 考虑到夫或妻收入为总收入, 夫14万, 妻0万 ontario要多交多少税? 美国有 joint 交税. -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-17 (#2911425@0)

你给算算你所的情况有多少税，然后俺帮你算ontario的情况。。实事求是嘛。。 -elmst200(Kirkpatrick); 2006-4-17 (#2911517@0)

本人在 Chicago, 收入13万(401k extra), 妻不工作, joint 交税2万8, 没有house. 如有house, 多deduction -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-17 (#2911599@0)

not too lower either -hunhuner(混混儿); 2006-4-17 {77} (#2911664@0)
we have 总收入 ...CLEARLY more than 13K . the 税 is less than your tax + 10K

我没有算IRA , 公司办的free and 没有house.如有house, less tax -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-17 (#2911690@0)
我的情况在ontario要交多少税? -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-17 (#2911709@0)

在美国，如果夫妻各7万结婚就比一个14万一个没有的亏。加拿大没有这种情况。你应该问一问夫妻各7万在安省交多少税。加上美国的社会保险和医疗保险。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914916@0)

这下暴露出来了，你压根就没在美国报过税。美国只要是JOINT FILING就是按总收入，根本不存在区别。一个不工作的家庭绝对在美国划算。 -cerboros(Once Upon Great King); 2006-4-19 (#2914957@0)

我的意思是如果一个人14w一个没有和两个7w结不结婚在美国后果是不同的，加拿大则没有不同。一个不工作的家庭在美国的确划算，但两个工作的家庭在加拿大合算。因为两个人可能都有14w收入！所以我说很多美国上流社会跑加拿大了。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916586@0)

在加拿大，如果夫妻结婚一个14万一个没有收入就比夫妻收入各7万的亏。美国没有这种情况。你应该问一问夫妻结婚一个14万一个没有在华盛顿州交多少税。加上美国的社会保险税和医疗保险税。 -ustax(roliatax); 2006-4-19 (#2914964@0)

我明白你的意思，但至少有的情况是另一位收入也极高。这就是我说的什么样的妻子什么样的儿子的问题。我现在在加拿大，这几个国家我们已经折腾很久了，估计还要折腾下去。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916595@0)

ontario 有多少deduction？美国有 mortgage interest deduction, employee business deduction. ontario 有吗? -goodlord(goodlord); 2006-4-17 (#2911437@0)

ontario也有很多deduction，如你说的business deduction，学费credit, 投资所得税加拿大比美国低。并且ontario的property taxes比较低。。 -elmst200(Kirkpatrick); 2006-4-17 {61} (#2911536@0)
另外ontario的税务负担比如medical，social security等低得多。。

你说的是那苹果和桔子比。实际情况是加拿大有的DEDUCTION美国几乎都有，比如学费和BUSINESS费用。美国的税务结构就是比加拿大低很多，比如房子的利息和PROPERTY TAX可以抵税，JOINT FILE，小孩福利。 -cerboros(Once Upon Great King); 2006-4-18 {90} (#2912118@0)
加拿大吹捧说牛奶金，收入稍微高一点就什么都没了。美国一个小孩可以直接扣几
百块钱税下来。

几百块钱的没意思。加拿大有SR&ED。美国没有联邦的，只有加州和华盛顿州有州的。这是动则过万乃至十数万的退税。高科技人才在加拿大很容易就一分钱税都不用交，还有巨额政府退税作补贴。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914928@0)

加拿大也有mortgage interest deduction，只要你用公司名义购房就有了。卖房的时候增值每人头上有25万免税额，两夫妇就有50万，基本不用交税。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914921@0)

呵呵, 老大, 你别老是举些极端例子. 有多少加拿大人会用公司名义购房? 钻牛角尖举极端例子没什么普遍意义. -nix(梦似烟花心似水); 2006-4-19 (#2915398@0)

如果你想着10w的按揭谁也没兴趣搞这么多，想象那些1m以上的房子10w以上的车子有多少是个人名义买的。公司的一个好处就是如果这辈子注定有遗产，遗产在公司范围内可以少很多麻烦。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916606@0)

老婆是学会计的吧 -buickregal(CISACPACIACISSP); 2006-4-20 {9} (#2916274@0)
I am nosy

太座是IT的。这些作奸犯科的馊主意都是我想出来的，一个中国注册经济师、注册会计师、注册税务师的儿子。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916613@0)

肯定吗？房产增值不是该算在公司头上？ -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-20 (#2918106@0)

你没有计算DEDUTIBLE。加拿大基本上没有什么DEDUCTIBLE。美国在GROSS上砍掉两三万是很容易的。 -cerboros(Once Upon Great King); 2006-4-18 (#2912135@0)
Example for a married couple makes $64543 (federal adjust income) for the year of 2005. The total tax (fed, NY state), social security, medicare is $14155. -headbig(Big Head); 2006-4-18 {94} (#2912408@0)
Had house, rental loss, donation, all thinkable deduction. Not much difference, in my opinion.

用软件算了一下，夫妇在安省2005各有Taxable income $33500(考虑汇率大概是USD$645xx)，家庭总税$12,053(合不足USD11,000)，包括补缴CPP(社安险) -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914943@0)

个人income tax税率不是确定是否来ontario投资的原因。ontario的成功是因为corporte taxes税率比周围美国州低，并且雇员的overhead低(雇主不用付基本的medical保险) -elmst200(Kirkpatrick); 2006-4-17 {211} (#2911188@0)
另外主要因素就是：
1。有高水平的教育，有很大的人才pool。
2。社会安定，政策连贯，有利投资。
3。地理位置好，水陆空交通发达。
4。基础设施配套，条件好。
5。成熟完备的工业体系，有利于机器大生产的分工协作。
etc.

知道公司税率低想方设法开公司不就可以省税了。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914910@0)

i have the same observation. 实际美国工程方面工作收入不高。。 -elmst200(Kirkpatrick); 2006-4-17 {56} (#2911178@0)
比如civil engineering, mechanical engineering 等专业。。

I have ok job in Canada and I just come down to U.S to seek how good of U.S? -redbean(redbean); 2006-4-17 (#2910612@0)
本人98年登陆,身边朋友大概80%左右还在加拿大,大概10%的人左右回去国内发展,10%南下美国发展,本人IT业从业, 朋友也是物已内聚. -wydmly(wydmly); 2006-4-17 (#2911172@0)
本人2002年登陆，会计从业，很快找到所谓“专业”工作（>60k/yr）。周围朋友（同行，也有所谓“专业”工作）80％回流，且都找到比这边好的工作机会。好的工作不仅指pay，更重要的是发展机会，这点加拿大和国内没法比。 -watcher00c3c(麦田守望者); 2006-4-17 (#2911234@0)

Why <所谓“专业”工作> ? -vicky2005(孩子她爹); 2006-4-18 (#2912096@0)

因为在很多人眼里>70k才算“专业”工作，否则只能算“鸡肋”工。 -watcher00c3c(麦田守望者); 2006-4-19 (#2915336@0)

当初别人告诉我4w以上就是专业工作。没想到通胀这么厉害，一不小心打了几年的鸡肋工啊。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916623@0)

2000年初登陆, 身边朋友大概90%还在加拿大. Those 在加拿大找不到专业工的去美国. I had tried to 去美国, but I found it isn't worthy for my family and career -vicky2005(孩子她爹); 2006-4-18 (#2912114@0)
2000年来,还在打工,周围十万的和打工的没有一个回去的. -toe(傻根); 2006-4-18 (#2912119@0)
偶刚从美国回来，发现偶正活在水深火热之中。 -j30(猪狗不如); 2006-4-18 (#2912423@0)

水深火热? where? -vicky2005(孩子她爹); 2006-4-18 (#2912425@0)

I landed Toronto in 1999, and have landed US recently. -victorzhou(patty); 2006-4-18 {1030} (#2912428@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I'm in the most common group, IT staff. >60K is regular. Many of them have >80K. If it's dual income family, they earn more than 100K.

Going to US or China are always hot topics of the get-together parties. But actually few people did the bold move. Less than 10%. Most of people go to US before 2001 or after 2004.

I will only talk about the reasons that blocked people from going to US:

First, people all have kids, house and the whole social life here, such as parents, most of friends. Everything is smooth.

On the other hand, from my observation, Toronto is such a unique city, which is better than most of US ciities from life point of view. If we're in some small cities of Canada, maybe more people have left.

Last but not least, the income in US is not as high as we expected. And the tax is quite high in most of states.

For my own case, I earned a little bit more than in Toronto. The tax is a little bit lower. If considered the medical insurance and co-pay, then I will get less money to use.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Absolutely agree with you... -kenny.g(golfer); 2006-4-18 {998} (#2912728@0)
Absolutely agree with you. Working at U.S, for sure from the amounts of dollar, will make more, but how it will bump up your life? Will you afford luxury boat or personal jet? life quality will be changed dramatically? I don’t think so.

All my friends, who are currently working at U.S, had no choice to leave Toronto, either couldn’t find jobs or relocated to U.S offices because companies were sold\closed. How’s their life going? fine but the same as us, saving each penny to pay the mortgage\give kids the better education, going to church every weekend…

I think those, who are under 30 and don’t have kids, should go south, because there are more opportunities and more money, otherwise all the aspects should be balance before making the final decision. For myself, I may, if I can when I am getting old, buy a house in California and go there living several months every year to skip Toronto winter time, that is my dream.

Final word, money is important but not everything…

But actually I have different opinion with you -victorzhou(patty); 2006-4-18 {1156} (#2912776@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛My key point is:

We cannot expect to earn bigger money in US if you have been working in Toronto with a decent job for years.

Your idea is still assuming that people can earn more in US.

I agree that US will have much more jobs opportunities than in Toronto. But from the income point of view, I don't think it's very attractive.

The 2 famous areas: NYC and California have the highest wage level. But even in SV, 100K becomes a good offer for permanent now. It's not impossible to find higher, but it's pretty hard.

NYC will have 20-30% more. Seattle is 20% less.

Above 3 places have much higher living expenses than Toronto.

Someone in this forum announced that he earned 130K or 140K, so people presume that it's a common case.

I found people in canada have wrong perception on salary level in US.

It's an unfair comparason. If compared a new job between US and canada, it's no doubt that US has much higher pay.

But if considering changing from a decent job in canada to a new job in US, it's another story.

If people have house, family, friends all in toronto, it will become more difficult to decide.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

It should not matter, -kenny.g(golfer); 2006-4-18 {342} (#2912893@0)
It should not matter, I assume this is true because regardless salary standard and living expenses, there is also an exchange rate between America and Canadian. All I want to express is that don’t expect too much if moving to U.S. Toronto is the NO. 5th biggest city in North America and much better than majority of the major cities in U.S.

earn your salary in Toronto when you are young, and try to afford a vacation house in California too? hehe.. man you are really dreaming... -nix(梦似烟花心似水); 2006-4-19 (#2914894@0)

You never know what’s gonna happen after 20 years, everyone has the way to make the money not only on salary, so it is quite possible, don’t make this statement so positively, kid… -kenny.g(golfer); 2006-4-19 (#2915178@0)

我是鼓励去美国的，当然要看各人的情况，好好自己算一算，是捞一把就回来还是定居在那里。税我不认为是什么大问题，还要考虑环境什么的因素。如果有好的机会，不见得有人因为在美国多缴一年省一两千的税就不去的。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914958@0)

You don't need to encourage -victorzhou(patty); 2006-4-19 {842} (#2915060@0)
It's so difficult to find a job in toronto. Many people have been thinking of moving to US day and night.

According to my observation, going to and living in us is not as easy as we expected. But if you're doing labor jobs or frustrated in pressure of losing job, going to US will be a good alternative.

You will get not as high pay as expected, but at least you're doing "Zhuan Ye" (professional) job now.

You will lose job now and then, but as long as you have some skills, you will find a new one in a few months at most. It's hard to image in US that people in toronto cannot find a professional job for years!

Another sweet part is: I found the living cost in US is quite cheap in most of US cities if compared with toronto. Something services' prices in toronto are really crazy. Such as TTC, Insurance, internet.

Most stuffs are cheaper in US. Sales taxes are much lower. House is expensive. -steve888(Steve); 2006-4-19 (#2915135@0)
你说得很有道理。我想，大家如果在加拿大都在做自己的专业的话，谁还会去美国折腾？正是由于加拿大狼多肉少，正是由于加拿大是一个不发展反而倒退的国家，所以就没有那么多的专业工作机会。 -111111(快乐老家); 2006-4-19 {162} (#2915936@0)
被逼无奈，只好去美国寻找自己的专业，只好放弃老婆孩子。一个搞技术的人如果不做自己喜欢的工作，就是在往死里走。祝大家一起去美国寻找生活的机会吧。。。该死加拿大！！！

不喜欢可以选择离开,不要说什么该死不该死的. -oopp(ops); 2006-4-19 (#2916082@0)
"狼多肉少" is true. -victorzhou(patty); 2006-4-20 {1243} (#2916945@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Canada is better than US in most of of areas, but not the job opportunities.

The reasons are simple:
1) small job market
2) too many immigrant (too easy to immigrate to canada)

I had a high income job in canada. But during these years, my company used a lot a lot of volunteers and co-ops or $10/hour contractors to co-work with me. I feel the company will kick me off whenever possible.

Under such a pressure, I cannot enjoy any good things of canada, though I know there're many of them.

Many people concern if a middle-age with job, house, family, friends in canada should leave canada for US for new venture? My point is: without a good job in canada, we will lose everything above.

If I might be forced to leave for new venture, why not do it with good plan?

So my plan to US is a long term objective, i.e. I would not take TN to work temporarily. I'm aiming for green card and a complete new life. Conceptually, I will not plan to go back to Canada. Like when the day I left china, I never planed to go back.

Under this objective, I don't care that much about how much tax can I save, how much money can I earn more. I do care about if I will continuously get a job with decent income to support my family.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

同感。如果你在加拿大有一份很好的工作和很好的收入，却是没有必要去美国工作，但是，在你没有这样的条件的前提下，去美国工作，无疑是我们大陆技术移民最好的选择。 -111111(快乐老家); 2006-4-20 {222} (#2918132@0)
我和你的观点不同的是，我去美国工作，是因为加拿大没有我这样的工作职位，而美国到处都是，所以，我去了美国也许就真的回不来了。但是我不知道你为什么一定要去了就不回来了？

哪里有工作，哪里就是我的家。。可怜，真是太可怜了。。。

本人９８年从美国过来，本打算三年后回美国，可没曾想一住就是八年。现在觉得还是加拿大好。朋友中去美国的甚少。回国的和留加的差不多各一半。觉得现在去美国更没意义，加币如此坚挺，赚的都不见的比这多，更别谈总的生活质量了。 -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-18 (#2912699@0)

再提一句，回去的人倒有一半想回来。 -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-18 (#2912702@0)
why don't go to Dallas? it is said: the house is very cheap, living expense is lower, the income is same as Toronto. -iter(ITer); 2006-4-19 (#2914317@0)

I heard this from my agent: his friend has been to Dalas for long time (20yrs). Now he is retired but can not go back to Toronto because the house is too expensive here. -didina(?,?,还是?); 2006-4-19 (#2914783@0)

同意你的观点，现在加元和2000年的时候比太坚挺了。和美国比等于加薪50%。以前美国6万美金对加拿大人很有吸引力，现在不同了。不过话说回来，等美元重新坚挺，美国又会变得可爱的。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-19 (#2914965@0)

加币的确升值，但是我看市场上的东西倒没有便宜。dollar店也没有变成three-quarter店。ttc还涨价，油也涨，水电煤都涨，地税也涨。美金贬值，在美国买东西却越来越便宜。我也学过经济学的，但是这个实在搞不懂。 -steve888(Steve); 2006-4-19 (#2915237@0)

呵呵. 同意. 我也不懂. -nix(梦似烟花心似水); 2006-4-19 (#2915402@0)
美国人民挣的少了５０％，东西还不得便宜点 -buickregal(CISACPACIACISSP); 2006-4-19 (#2916095@0)

相对于美国的物价，美国人民挣的只多不少。（除了买房以外。） -ustax(roliatax); 2006-4-19 (#2916102@0)

房子价格也在下降趋势. -oopp(ops); 2006-4-19 (#2916110@0)

很多地方的房子价格还在上涨。 -ustax(roliatax); 2006-4-20 (#2918100@0)

加元其实是对美元升值，所以要买美国制造的东西才省钱，象美国的房子、美国的车子、美国的x子等等。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916652@0)
加拿大很多东西是美国造的，就是不便宜。原因是商店对加币没有USD有信心。我给一个在美国和加拿大的都有的商店做系统，同一个货，同样的进货价(USD)，加拿大卖的比美国高30%。 -cerboros(Once Upon Great King); 2006-4-20 (#2916786@0)

我觉得是因为加拿大的市场小需求小。而且很多所谓的加拿大公司只是中介向美国公司进货而已。一般的东西到软件产品什么的我都是直接从美国找agent按商品目录订货。付美元，极省钱。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-21 (#2919074@0)

以前觉得大概因为许多东西都是从中国或者其他发展中国家进口的关系。现在人民币升值了，美国的东西还是不贵。前几天买了200g硬盘$20,512m内存$20包税。 -steve888(Steve曾经曰过); 2006-4-20 (#2916983@0)

人民币对美元只升值了%几。而且电脑产品贬值快，价格上看不出来。只不过同样价格原来美国比大陆落后2个月到落后3个月就已经是很大的贬值了。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-21 (#2919078@0)

还有一点，加拿大对家属团聚比美国要好不少，在美国的一些朋友还没什么人把父母移民出来的。 -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-20 (#2916256@0)

我觉得加拿大的医疗系统对于PR的65岁以上的老年人是真的好，啥都不花钱 -buickregal(CISACPACIACISSP); 2006-4-20 (#2916273@0)
美国有兄弟姐妹和成年子女类别，加拿大没有。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916655@0)
那是因为你在美国的一些朋友还不是美国公民。美国公民为父母办理美国移民比加拿大公民为父母办理加拿大移民快得多。 -ustax(roliatax); 2006-4-20 (#2916675@0)

加拿大好像没他们说的那么严重吧，最近一个朋友父母移民签证下来了，顶多等了2年。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916688@0)

丈母娘还象申请她90多岁的母亲移民加拿大好照顾。她母亲不来才作罢。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-20 (#2916696@0)
好像看到移民团聚论坛里许多2003年下半年的还在等SPONSORSHIP。2003上半年的现在能够拿到移民纸。时代不同了，我父母2001年的时候，全部才11个月。 -steve888(Steve曾经曰过); 2006-4-20 (#2916970@0)

俺父母从收到接受入表信到拿纸才3个月！同时期入表的同学申请少一个人还用了11个月。搞得很狼狈，拼命地拖。既然是同学，背景一样。我能想出来唯一的不同是家庭收入。当时好像是同学的3倍或以上。所以对父母说什么叫资本主义社会。 -cadillac(Caddy); 2006-4-21 (#2919095@0)

美国是四年左右拿绿卡，再过七年拿公民，再有一年申请父母移民，总共十二年。加拿大你只要绿卡就可以申请父母移民了。 -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-20 (#2917188@0)

法律规定拿到绿卡后5年可以申请公民。 -ustax(roliatax); 2006-4-20 (#2918098@0)

An American master,been lived US for 4years.Landed in toronto 2003,.IT job here.Will go back after my 3 years here.But depend how much the salary and which city -lucytoronto(sunny); 2006-4-19 (#2915805@0)
All my friend who got degree in the states came back right way after their 3 years.Honestly,most American cities are much better than canada .(compare all field) -lucytoronto(sunny); 2006-4-19 (#2915821@0)
99年登陆,挨踢(被踢来踢去的),被踢上瘾了,就不走了(在哪还不是一样.),养老计划都做好了. -powerliftgate(大屁嘣嘣); 2006-4-19 (#2915886@0)

多走走才知道一样不一样. -oopp(ops); 2006-4-19 (#2916072@0)

要是每个州都走遍了, 估计最后也就一样了,为啥 -buickregal(CISACPACIACISSP); 2006-4-20 {18} (#2916275@0)
就不走了(走不动了)
二十几岁时走走还不错，到而立之年就没什么多大意思了。 -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-20 {186} (#2916527@0)
在美国几年基本上因工作要求一年换一个地方。周围的朋友也是几年换了几个地方，所以特别好的朋友还是高中大学时的好友。其实这对家庭经济来说也没什么好处。一直租房住。难怪美国的华人很少有归属感。

"在美国几年基本上因工作要求一年换一个地方",正好说明机会多 "周围的朋友也是几年换了几个地方"那是他们自己的选择,如果不再有更多追求,完全可以选定个地方安定下来.人往高出走,不会月换越差吧 -oopp(ops); 2006-4-20 (#2916544@0)

那到不见得，有很多情况导致要换地方，i.e.到另外地方上学啊，layoff后当地找不到工作啊，家里情况变化啊，我个人认为经常换地方是反而是当地机会不多的表现。很多人并不喜欢搬来搬去，特别是有家庭的话。 -zhuby(竹笔); 2006-4-20 (#2916589@0)

这种因素造成的换地方在哪里都一样,就怕是你想搬家寻找新机会都没有,其实加拿大确实不错,我们也是97从美国过来的,在加住了有一段时间,但是最后还是选择放弃,我们还是希望我们的孩子以后能生活在一个充满活力和机会的地方. -oopp(ops); 2006-4-20 (#2916619@0)

是那个理!可是我自己掂量了掂量自己的两把刷子和所得到的收入,还是就这呆着吧. -powerliftgate(大屁嘣嘣); 2006-4-20 (#2918083@0)

@Ontario

I landed Toronto in 1999, and have landed US recently.

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